Detailed thoughts on BSG 2.01: Scattered
Jul. 19th, 2005 05:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dangermousieAnd now for something completely different.
Yes, it’s a BSG post. I am a bit more coherent now, and have gotten at least some of my HP thoughts out of the way.
This will be rather Roslin-centric. But there is other stuff as well. Spoilers for “Scattered,” of course.
I thought it interesting that when the guard in the brig addressed Roslin as the Prophet, she did not flinch a bit. Now, most of us would be freaked by that, but she does not even pause for a second. I believe she truly views herself as a prophet, but an additional part of it is that Roslin is a politician, and a consummate one. She must realize that if she is viewed as a religious figurehead, a Moses of the Colonies, she will have an unshakeable power base that Adama would never be able to topple. A politician is replaceable. A prophet? No. If she builds (or acquires) a core of people who believe in her religious destiny, she could never be removed. As it stands, she has no people who are passionately loyal to her (with the possible exception of Billy who, if political intern, likely has political idealism, and also knows that the only reason he is alive is because he was on that plane with Roslin), the way all the military is devoted to Adama. She is a default President. She might have people who will side with her even without agreeing (the way Apollo did in KLG2), but there is no passionate devotion. But if she is a prophet, all that changes.
You can see throughout how competent a politician she is. She tries to talk to Tigh and he blows her off and she doesn’t try again. She realizes that it’s pointless. Tigh is Adama’s man, and she can’t appeal to either his self-interest or his political principles. He is uninterested in the political background of Adama’s coup. For him, it’s enough that Adama ordered it and there is no point to pursue further.
It’s just the same with Kara and Lee. Roslin knows that a huge reason Kara is doing what she is doing by going off at the end of S1 is not because she views Roslin as the Prophesied One or any of that stuff. It’s because she feels betrayed by Adama. But once again, I don’t think Roslin cares for underpinnings of Kara’s reasoning, she only cares for her actions, which will be beneficial to Roslin’s plan.
And of course she knows not to bring the Prophet card with Lee. He strikes me as quite skeptical, and she knows she will not get any results that way. She knows she can rely on his innate belief in good civil government. And I think she did use her cancer info in a very specific way, on him included, to get just that dollop of sympathy and privilege (she told me this great secret and no one else), that might tip the scales more in her favor. She might have lost any caring, emotional, personal liking he’s had for her by 2.01. It started with Kara’s leaving, and her surrendering after he’s put a gun to Tigh’s head (though I don’t think it was for nothing. It avoided bloodshed, at least), but I think what really ended it was Adama getting shot, and Lee not being able to stop it, and his father potentially dying thinking his son betrayed him. There is none of the warmth in their interaction in 2.01 that there was in e.g. Bastille Day. But you know what? It doesn’t matter. Because Lee is committed to good government, and he will still support Roslin whatever his personal feelings towards her. And she knows that, and I believe it’s a price she is willing to pay.
On Gaeta: there’s speculation going around that he is a Cylon, but I don’t buy it. He is the one who plots the jumps. He could have delivered them to the Cylons any time in the past two months. He strikes me as someone who is always so stiff and still because there is so much constant nervious interference running on that it becomes a constant motion. Basically he is awfully nervous and “high-strung.” And, surprisingly, Tigh knows how to handle him really well and doesn’t blame him.
I also think the reason no one thought to check the crashed into Galactica ship for Cylons is because they simply have no resources. They are stretched paper-thin, witness Apollo returning to duty (and yes, I agree with Hornblower comparisons). Of course, it must be weird to be commanded by a man who returns to the brig once the flight is over. It was wonderful to see Lee try to pull himself together after his complete loss of control in the first half of the episode (screaming as he is literally dragged away, his explosion at the guard about the cuffs). Now that you really see what kind of mess he is and the temper he has, it’s all the more fascinating to watch him so controlled, and I am impressed by his strength of will in holding it in the way he does.
And I still (even on rewatch) found Tigh hitting Boomer both understandable and awfully uncomfortable to watch. Because her hands are bound and she is wounded and he is twice her size. I love the complexities. And the thing is, she can never truly die no matter how much she wants it, because if she does, her consciousness will just be downloaded into a new body (though can Cylons share consciousness? It seems so, if G-Boomer’s comments to Starbuck about first meeting her as C-Boomer are any indication).
Also, since Adama runs on personal loyalty, as I posited earlier, there is another reason why Roslin’s convincing of Starbuck makes him so boiling mad. To him, trying to make someone disloyal is the worst sin there is. And that's why he and Apollo often don't see eye to eye. Apollo loves him and Adama knows it. But he knows he will never do something simply out of loyalty. He has to agree it's a good thing, first. Unlike Tigh and Starbuck (at least pre KLG) for whom "Adama said" is a good reason enough. Apollo would never follow anyone unless he analyzed it to his satisfaction and agreed with it, first.
Yes, it’s a BSG post. I am a bit more coherent now, and have gotten at least some of my HP thoughts out of the way.
This will be rather Roslin-centric. But there is other stuff as well. Spoilers for “Scattered,” of course.
I thought it interesting that when the guard in the brig addressed Roslin as the Prophet, she did not flinch a bit. Now, most of us would be freaked by that, but she does not even pause for a second. I believe she truly views herself as a prophet, but an additional part of it is that Roslin is a politician, and a consummate one. She must realize that if she is viewed as a religious figurehead, a Moses of the Colonies, she will have an unshakeable power base that Adama would never be able to topple. A politician is replaceable. A prophet? No. If she builds (or acquires) a core of people who believe in her religious destiny, she could never be removed. As it stands, she has no people who are passionately loyal to her (with the possible exception of Billy who, if political intern, likely has political idealism, and also knows that the only reason he is alive is because he was on that plane with Roslin), the way all the military is devoted to Adama. She is a default President. She might have people who will side with her even without agreeing (the way Apollo did in KLG2), but there is no passionate devotion. But if she is a prophet, all that changes.
You can see throughout how competent a politician she is. She tries to talk to Tigh and he blows her off and she doesn’t try again. She realizes that it’s pointless. Tigh is Adama’s man, and she can’t appeal to either his self-interest or his political principles. He is uninterested in the political background of Adama’s coup. For him, it’s enough that Adama ordered it and there is no point to pursue further.
It’s just the same with Kara and Lee. Roslin knows that a huge reason Kara is doing what she is doing by going off at the end of S1 is not because she views Roslin as the Prophesied One or any of that stuff. It’s because she feels betrayed by Adama. But once again, I don’t think Roslin cares for underpinnings of Kara’s reasoning, she only cares for her actions, which will be beneficial to Roslin’s plan.
And of course she knows not to bring the Prophet card with Lee. He strikes me as quite skeptical, and she knows she will not get any results that way. She knows she can rely on his innate belief in good civil government. And I think she did use her cancer info in a very specific way, on him included, to get just that dollop of sympathy and privilege (she told me this great secret and no one else), that might tip the scales more in her favor. She might have lost any caring, emotional, personal liking he’s had for her by 2.01. It started with Kara’s leaving, and her surrendering after he’s put a gun to Tigh’s head (though I don’t think it was for nothing. It avoided bloodshed, at least), but I think what really ended it was Adama getting shot, and Lee not being able to stop it, and his father potentially dying thinking his son betrayed him. There is none of the warmth in their interaction in 2.01 that there was in e.g. Bastille Day. But you know what? It doesn’t matter. Because Lee is committed to good government, and he will still support Roslin whatever his personal feelings towards her. And she knows that, and I believe it’s a price she is willing to pay.
On Gaeta: there’s speculation going around that he is a Cylon, but I don’t buy it. He is the one who plots the jumps. He could have delivered them to the Cylons any time in the past two months. He strikes me as someone who is always so stiff and still because there is so much constant nervious interference running on that it becomes a constant motion. Basically he is awfully nervous and “high-strung.” And, surprisingly, Tigh knows how to handle him really well and doesn’t blame him.
I also think the reason no one thought to check the crashed into Galactica ship for Cylons is because they simply have no resources. They are stretched paper-thin, witness Apollo returning to duty (and yes, I agree with Hornblower comparisons). Of course, it must be weird to be commanded by a man who returns to the brig once the flight is over. It was wonderful to see Lee try to pull himself together after his complete loss of control in the first half of the episode (screaming as he is literally dragged away, his explosion at the guard about the cuffs). Now that you really see what kind of mess he is and the temper he has, it’s all the more fascinating to watch him so controlled, and I am impressed by his strength of will in holding it in the way he does.
And I still (even on rewatch) found Tigh hitting Boomer both understandable and awfully uncomfortable to watch. Because her hands are bound and she is wounded and he is twice her size. I love the complexities. And the thing is, she can never truly die no matter how much she wants it, because if she does, her consciousness will just be downloaded into a new body (though can Cylons share consciousness? It seems so, if G-Boomer’s comments to Starbuck about first meeting her as C-Boomer are any indication).
Also, since Adama runs on personal loyalty, as I posited earlier, there is another reason why Roslin’s convincing of Starbuck makes him so boiling mad. To him, trying to make someone disloyal is the worst sin there is. And that's why he and Apollo often don't see eye to eye. Apollo loves him and Adama knows it. But he knows he will never do something simply out of loyalty. He has to agree it's a good thing, first. Unlike Tigh and Starbuck (at least pre KLG) for whom "Adama said" is a good reason enough. Apollo would never follow anyone unless he analyzed it to his satisfaction and agreed with it, first.
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no subject
Date: 2005-07-19 09:58 pm (UTC)It does not make her a worse or less effective leader (her belief in the literalness of the prophesies does that).
And I agree with you on Lee. Of course, his closeness to both might help him to get away with more than he could otherwise.
no subject
Date: 2005-07-20 01:53 pm (UTC)But what if the propheses are true? In my opinion, there's no reason to think that just because in our world things like propheses are probably not real means that in BSG-world the same holds true.
If the propheses are true, and are literal, then she is not a lesser leader because of her belief in them. If they are true, then she is doing exactly what she has to to save the species.
I agree that Roslin is calculating, and can be ruthless, but I don't think she's cold. I think she cares about the people she nominally leads more than she even lets us as viewers know. I don't think her fight is for more power, I think her fight is to save humans.
no subject
Date: 2005-07-20 02:20 pm (UTC)I really hope that they are not literally true, however, because then it would just become "up with our imaginary religion" show, and not really my kind of thing.
She cares under the 50K people in her care. But in a rather dispassionate way. Not a weakness, just a personal trait.