More Buffy and Angel babbling and vids

[dangermousie]

While waiting for Hanadan to download, I went looking for Buffy/Angel vids on youtube.

I am going to start rewatching Buffy tomorrow. Starting with 'Angel' (I watched 1.1 and 1.2 a couple of months ago, some write-ups somewhere).

My favorite of the bunch:

Oh, GUH. You know, if you know me, B/A ship would hit every kink, every weakness, every preference I have, even the ones I didn't know I had at the time: it's like a dorama and a Bollywood movie, and one of those romantic 19th century French novels I used to love, all in one. It's over-dramatic, and hopeless, and doomed, and full of irresistable attraction and sacrifice and opposites. When I look at the ships I go really crazy over, this fits the type to a T. I mean, she sent him to Hell. To save the world. After kissing. And his last word was 'Buffy.' I am a goner. And he came back from hell, after a hundred years of torture, not sane at first, and his first word? 'Buffy.' This is so kdrama. My favorite scene in all of Buffy is in S3' 'Beauty and the Beasts' where he has just killed what's-his-name, who was attacking Buffy, and she stops and looks at him (because he's just gotten back from hell, and was completely insane, and she had to chain him up) and as he walks towards her, his face morphs back into human form, and he is uncertain, and she stares and then he goes, questioningly 'Buffy?' and she just looks at him and he drops on his knees in front of her and he is half-sobbing and he is clutching her for dear life but what kills me is the look on her face: like she can't even process it. Like it's all she's wanted and she can't believe she's got it. People either think it's ridiculously OTT or slurp it up. Guess which one was I? (I was in grad school, first year, catching reruns, missing Mr. Mousie like crazy, as it was our long-distance year. Buffy helped).

That is why I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner later. If hell and death can't break the OTP, it's hard to believe a relocation will. In my world, Buffy and a bunch of slayers show up at the end of the last ep of Angel and after they take care of the bad guys, Angel and Buffy finally get together and solve the curse or what not and have a lot of making up.

Anyway, rabid shippers need their happy delusions. Anyway, they are one of my Top 10 tv otps, for better or worse ;)

I bring you further youtube bounty:

In all fairness, I have to say that Mr. Mousie, who loves Buffy, thinks Angel is about the most unrealistic guy out there (he doesn't think Oz is super real either, not for his age). He thinks that of course every girl would want a guy for whom she is literally the meaning of life and who can never move on from her. Mr. Mousie's take is that Angel is basically what a girl wants, her fantasy boyfriend, not a truly realistic guy. To which I told him:

a. Who knows what a 250+ year old vampire would be?
b. Who cares? I love him anyway.
c. In RL, I'd murder Angel in two seconds because of the moping, but let me have my fun in fiction...He is so La Mole in 'Queen Margot' (the novel, not the movie. Oh, Alexandre Dumas, you warped my fictional tastes forever).

Comments

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Angel IS really mopey, isn't he? I think that's part of why I like him and Cordy...she forces him to cheer up. But he does angst ever so well.

Seasons 3 and 5, IMO, were the best seasons...it should be noted that they're also the two seriesthat feature an important relationship falling apart, and have the greatest emphasis on family. And Willow having the happy healthy relationship *wails for poor Oz*

I do love that scene when he comes back though, poor girl was in such shock. But yeah, they really did write themselves into a corner, though I understand Angel's reasoning. I mean, her loving him gave her the greatest pain she'd ever felt, and as far as he was concerned, being around her would only cause her more pain, and threaten her and the people she cared about. So, I don't think it was the relocation that kept them apart, but his determination that she wouldn't suffer anymore because of him(not that she was overly tolerant of such tactics, but hey...)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I don't really care for Cordy but she amuses me in small doses. I could actually never really see her with any male characters on the show (either show), with the somwwhat possible exception of Doyle. With Angel, she'd drive him insane in about two weeks (she has Buffy's shallowness, without her fierce idealism and dedication). And of course, I was biased.

But I could never see her with anyone else either. I don't know why. I just didn't find her a 'romantic' character. I thought she'd be a fab snarky person with a string of meaningless, hot bfs. I guess she just never struck me as someone who could let go of herself enough to really fall madly in love. Not a bad thing, but that precluded me from shipping her (e.g. I thought she and Xander were funny and cute in S2 and 3 but I didn't really see them as a ship).

Re: break-up. Oh, no, I get why they stayed away (though I doub they could have stayed away, really stayed away for long, not with the deathly danger. Here is where TV constraints: of maintaining dramatic tension, two different shows, even two different networks, actors' schedules etc come into play. Tht is why I generally prefer books).

But I also think the writers wrote themselves in a corner, that after all that I could just never buy that either would ever be interested in anyone else. To borrow Logan's word, they made it so 'epic' I just couldn't see anything else. It just didn't make sense narratively (I generally dislike episodic TV because it violates narrative arcs I am used to with books).

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Cordy develops just as much dedication and idealism as Buffy, though, more in a way, as. Unlike Buffy it's NOT her destiny, it's the life she was stuck with, and she chooses to try to make the best of it. Buffy has it hard, too, in being forced to grow up the hard way, but it IS what she was meant for and she had certain advantages. With Cordy it ISN'T what she was meant for, but it was still forced on her. As much as she denied it, she helped the gang in Buffy because it was the right thing and, shallow or not, she was a good person, and the same was true in Angel...once she was part of that life, she couldn't turn her back on it, and then she was given the visions, so that she never COULD leave it. Buffy is meant to be strong, but Cordy wasn't and had to learn to. Of all the characters in Buffy and Angel, Cordy's the one who grew and changed the most, which is why I love her(then Charisma Carpenter had to go and not tell Joss Whedon she was pregnant or whatever, and Cordy got character butchering, but we won't dwell on that) But you know, speaking of Xander/Cordy, I could never really ship him with anyone because was so clearly a case of "just because Buffy won't" and he always seemed to think that if he decided he wanted to, he'd just hook up with Willow. I liked him, and I actually approve of what he did at the end of season 2 because, if he'd told the truth, Buffy would have held back hoping Willow would succeed, and probably ended up dead because of it(though he gets a kick because that wasn't the ONLY reason he lied) but I could never ship him with anyone.

There was definate corner writing, but I don't think they ever wrote either one as having a love greater than the other was, or of that ever actually having a chance of happening.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think Buffy (the show, not the character) really went on for too long and they ran out of things to do with people. That is why I am not too sad about Firefly cancellation. Sure, I'd have loved for it for go for a couple more seasons, but Buffy made me wary and I am harboring a feeling that 'hey, at least they did it before Joss got bored and screwed it up.'

Heh.

Re: Xander. It's funny, because I agree. I actualy could totally see potential Buffy/Xander in early S1 (the awesome girl and the best friend guy who she doesn't see because she is blinded by someone glamorous and unsuitable is actually another trope I like. See Peach Girl. But Buffy is very dorama in the fact that this is unlikely to happen). Of course, post 'Angel' that vanished IMO.

Re: Xander's lie. I can see why he lied, and I don't dislike him for it, but I wonder about his motives. How much was a battle decision (a right one, I agree) about Buffy potentially holding back and how much was his dislike/jealousy of Angel (and more importantly, hatred of Angelus, whom he's never been able to diferrentiate from Angel). The thing is, I really wish it came out at some point. Buffy would have forgiven him (she seems to forgive her friends a great deal, maybe because they've proven their loyalty in other ways, or maybe because she's grateful to have any friends at all). but I wanted it addressed. Or well.

Actually, what bugs me more isn't Xander not telling because battle decision etc etc, it's the way her friends treated her when she got back, in early S3. Leaving aside the 'love of her life' issue, the girl had to kill a guy she was into and was dating, and then ended up living on the streets/similar for three months or so. Of course, she is not going to bounce back shiny. Even her repression powers have limits. I find both Willow and Xander at fault when Buffy gets back, and Xander's accusations at her make me want to slap him (so is Willow's attempts to hook her up with what-s-his-name. Not as a shipper, because definitely not a threat :D but because Buffy just recently had a break-up from hell, no pun intended, I'd give her a pass in not being interested in dating for a bit).

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

Re: Buffy's length: I only own Seasons 1-5 for a reason. Season 5 was a perfect, beautiful(if tragic) ending to the series and in 6 and 7 it was clear that, while they were trying, they were out of good ideas, or at least good execution. I think the only things that didn't get horribly messed up in there were Andrew(who started out messed up but became pretty decent) and Robin(who I was surprised I liked and I can actually see him being able to handle Faith and her very very deep issues) I think the core ideas of season 7 were actually very good, but they took them too far and it ended up a mess.

Re: Xander: Yeah, early Buffy you could see him as a valid potential love interest, but it was obvious by early season 2 that she would NEVER see him that way(I could see holding onto hope a bit after the first big rejection in season 1, but...) but it was like he never got it through his head and kept thinking that someday she'd change her mind. Also, did you get the feeling that, even though he said Riley was the only boyfriend Buffy had he liked, that he didn't actually like him until he was about to leave(when Xander could be in the position of stopping her from losing her love) There wasn't the flat out dislike he had for Angel and Spike(his comversations with Spike always cracked me up) but I didn't pick up only liking as much as tolerance, and probably only that because he could tell himself that Riley was someone he could measure up to.

Re: The LIe: Yeah, it's one of those things where the decision was right, but we don't know about the motives. I mean, telling her the truth would have been flat out stupid, period. I rather think it was a mixture, just an innate feeling that the truth would have been the wrong thing to say, so he said what he thought SHOULD be said. It did almost come out at one point, but not completely. And yeah, Buffy would have forgiven him. I mean, she forgave Faith, Angel and Spike for pretty much everything they did. Girl was about as close to perfect as you can get without being a Mary Sue(which is a compliment, because they managed to never make her a Mary Sue while keeping her an allegory for every girl) It did almost come out that one time, though, and I thought Buffy figured it out but didn't address it because she figured he thought he did what was right. (or so I told myself for closure)

Re: Buffy's return: Yeah, I don't blame her mother, because that was some major stuff that got thrown at her and then her daughter just VANISHED for months and all she knew was tyhat she had gone off to do something dangerous that involved the secret life she'd been living for years and then NOTHING. But her friends...yeah. Cordy and Oz seemed to pretty much be "well, you should have called but you're back and ok so the rest we'll ignore because, hey, did we mention that your beeing alive is a bonus?" but Willow and Xander? Ugh. Yeah, she should have let people know she was ok and had to take off, most definately, disappearing without a word was bad on her part, but they didn't seem to even try to understand and took it too far. I mean, her mother, who was in a far worse position than they, was trying. She wasn't succeeding overly well for a while, but she was trying.

[ewanspotter.livejournal.com]

Awww, a true Buffy/Angel shippers. All those stupid Buffy/Spike shippers always made me mad. Buffy/Angel OTP man, OTP.

I love the scene where he falls to his knees in front of her. Not just because it's moving, but because he's on his knees and STILL ALMOST AS TALL AS HER. She's freakin' tiny. ;D

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Heeee, icon!

Ahhh, definitely OTP.

but because he's on his knees and STILL ALMOST AS TALL AS HER. She's freakin' tiny. ;D

Not to mention you could make two of her out of him, width-wise. I love that. Huge guy/tiny girl, so my thing (what is the height difference between the two? Boreanaz is a big guy anyway, but SMG looks tiny regardless).

I always loved it when they walked together, because seriously, she looked so tiny next to him. And yet she is the one who could kick the most ass, which is awesome.

Oh, how I love the ship!

I need to dig some BA icons.

[rowanna73.livejournal.com]

*awww* I love those Buffy/Angel moments (although I'm favourable to Spike :P )

Could you please put all those Youtube vids totally behind lj-cuts? My browser freezes totally every time I open my friends page because of those... :(

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Sorry. Didn't realize it would cause a problem. behind cut now.