I may be a cold-blooded jelly donut but I have impeccable timing

[dangermousie]

Yes, my favorite BTVS quote ever. Said by Oz.

And this has nothing to do with the subject of this post, which is the sudden proliferation of certain uncanon ship fic in three fandoms of mine: Veronica Mars, Battlestar Galactica, and Firefly.

On VM front, it's Veronica/Lamb shippy fic. I don't have anything against it, as whatever floats your boat, but I am a bit curious why people are interested in it, and why the sudden spread of it? Because Lamb is definitely attractive, but there is nothing in the show to indicate that V/Lamb is possible as Lamb is a not-too-bright asshole and Veronica and he despise each other, and not in a "we make googly eyes" Logan/Veronica way. I basically haven't seen any basis in canon, which is obviously fine as all the authors are pretty clear it's UC, but I guess my question is why the popularity of this pairing? From what I can see, it's the second most popular non-slash ship in the fandom (poor Duncan just can't win) and I wonder why. Why, if you don't like V/L, not Veronica/Casey or Veronica/Dick (yes, he's nasty, but so is Lamb), Veronica/back to Leo, or whatever. Curious about why this one pushes so many buttons for people, basically.

In BSG it's the sudden appeance of "Dark Ship" (heh) of Apollo/Sharon and the ship of Gaeta/Dee.

I am especially confused on the Apollo/Sharon front as there is almost no interaction between the characters, and what there is, is Apollo wanting to kill Sharon for a moment (who is pregnant with Helo's child and forsaken her whole race for him) because another copy of her tried to kill his father. Considering this comes right after his kissing with Kara, with whom there is plenty of interaction and chemistry and before Helo pulls the gun on him to save his OTP, I am surprised it stuck in anyone's memory. There has never been any chemistry or interest in the other on the part of either. My bemusement is not because of K/L shipping. I can buy Lee with Dee easily. Heck, I could buy him with a pilot or two if it wasn't for regs. Just not with Sharon as he dislikes Cylons, but it's not even a fervent personal hate that you could wank into hidden passion, IMO. He just finds them repulsive. So why the ship? I am curious what makes it such an interesting and/or viable ship to a number of really excellent BSG writers...is it the absolute freedom from RM's sandbox?

Gaeta/Dee does have a cute deleted scene, but seeing as we don't even know if Gaeta likes girls, and Dee is committed to Billy and ogling Apollo, he seems low on the totem pole of attraction. Plus, again, almost no interaction. So what makes this ship more attractive than e.g. Gaeta/Racetrack or Tyrol/Dee?

On Firefly front, I shall always be confused by Jayne/River. They have nothing in common and almost don't interact ever. It's not Noah's Arc, so not everyone has to be paired, so why?

I am honestly not being picky or judgmental or any of these, just curious why those particular UC ships are popular, versus all sorts of other UC permutations that can occur but don't.

Comments

Veronica/Lamb

[life-on-queen.livejournal.com]

Curious about why this one pushes so many buttons for people, basically.

For me, anyway, it's about good acting and good chemistry. Kristen Bell and Michael Muhney work really well together and that chemistry makes the characters exciting. All fic basically runs on the energy between performers when the characters are in a scene together (which can often be stronger and more appealling than the canon relationship - Clark and Lex on S'ville for example).

With Lamb and Veronica, you have two very talented actors doing well-written scenes together and whose characters have a clearly defined but very emotional connection. Yes, they hate each other but, on Lamb's side at least, I occassionally see a little admiration for Veronica's chops as an investigator sneak in there. On Veronica's side, yeah, I'd be happier 'shipping Veronica and Lamb if there was ever a glimmer on the show that Lamb wasn't a complete tool. Still, RT and staff have surprised me before. There has to be some reason why Lamb was picked to take over for Keith, right? Other than just being there.

As for River/Jayne, again the characters don't like each other (Jayne, I believe has been overtly antagoinistic towards River) so there's an energy to spark a writer's imagination.

Basically, it's always fun to take characters that you like but don't necessarily like each other and put them together. It's interesting and dramatic and the obstacles to their getting together are built-in to their relationship rather than imposed as when you set two characters who like each other together.

And remember, people started 'shipping Veronica and Logan way before they actually came together on the show.

Re: Veronica/Lamb

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Re: thanks for the explanation. Lamb does seem to do a good enough job as a sheriff. I assume he was picked because he was the most senior deputy though...

Lamb's side at least, I occassionally see a little admiration for Veronica's chops as an investigator sneak in there.

I always crack up when he tells Keith admiringly that V is pretty hard-boiled. It figures, she'd win his admiration for turning in her unsuspecting loving boyfriend :P

people started 'shipping Veronica and Logan way before they actually came together on the show.


After the fourth ep, I could see the basis for V/L fic, as we saw he used to think she was hot, they were good friends, and he was more than a rich evil asshole. People writing L/V fics after e.g. Premiere would have struck me as UC as Veronica/Lamb fic. Basically, once we learn there is more to Logan, I can see the fic much easier, but we have yet to learn there is anything more to Lamb. If(or when) we do, another matter, of course!

[thelana.livejournal.com]

On Firefly front, I shall always be confused by Jayne/River. They have nothing in common and almost don't interact ever.

Well there is the part where she stabs him, so it's obviously love. *snerk*

I tend to think that it's probably mostly because people like River (because she is all cool and snazzy) and want to see her paired with somebody in fic. So I think they just picked Jayne based on exclusion (Wash, Mal occupied otherwise, Book too old, Simon would be incest).

As for V/Lamb, I'm guessing it's probably more popular than most other UC ships because people like the snark or the chemistry. Plus I'm guessing that V/Lamb just have more of a connection (they are frequently forced to work together, he has seen her in her lowest moment, he interacts regularly with her father, even if she considers him dirt under her shoes (like Dick or Casey) she often forced to interact with him and not able to ignore him completly; it just gives you more potential scenarios where you could weave in a story).

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

River might be cool, but she is definitely nutty (and 17) so I think it's OK she isn't paired with anyone just yet :)

[repr0b8.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not sure I can argue the points of Apollo/Sharon as well as some others (koala) may be able to, but I will give it a shot. I can at least give the arguments from the point of a rabid H/B shipper (maybe one of the most rabid?).

1) Helo/Boomer are not just doomed, but based on what we know of RDM, they are doomed to something awful. They are my OTP by miles and miles...and it's painful. So yes, a big big big part of it is just getting out of RDMs inferno of a sandbox, and go play with the characters in my little kiddie-pool.

2) I disagree that it's not a deep personal hate he feels for Sharon. This was a person who he once considered a close comrade, even wishing for 'a whole squadron of sharons'. Then she tries to kill his father. I think his hatred for her is very deep. In 'Home-1' he came to visit her in jail with the intention of killing her in cold blood. Later in the same episode her runs through a hail of bullets just to go after her.

There is a lot of fire there, and it's the fire that's not just born from being an enemy, it's the kind that can only be created when someone you thought was among your closest friends turns out to be your worst enemy. "You tried to kill my dad!" "It wasn't me!" - how angsty is that? :D

3) They are the two most complex characters in the show...putting them together is like mixing dynamite in your kitchen. Take the characters, keep their personalites and backgrounds, mix. Stand back. :D

And finally, for me personally, there are few things as romantic as watching hate turn to love...life so often is the other way around. :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Great post!

1. Helo/Boomer are doomed? Nooooooooooo. I am an optimist and I insist on hoping for the best. (Just watch me bawl into my keyboard a few months hence or similar :P)

2. Now that I think about it, you are right. He does hate her because of what "she" did to his father. I think he'd feel just as bad if it was any of his other pilots.

3. True, they are very complex and intriguing and reading a fic about their interaction is great. I just don't see how disparity of feeling this strong can turn to more than strained tolerance, especially when we have the OTP that is Helo/Sharon and Lee's emotional involvement with Kara. But of course YMMV which is what makes it so much fun.

[winterspel.livejournal.com]

As for the "Dark Ship" of Lee & Sharon, I was skeptical, too, until I read the wonderful fic by repr0b8, Under The Surface. After reading that, well, I had to admit that it was possible. Not now, or any time soon, but someday, well: maybe. In this post, koalathebear has described a chinese word that has dual meaning:

As mentioned in an earlier post, 冤家 yuānjia in Chinese means enemy or foe BUT it also has another meaning. It also means sweetheart, lover, one's destined lover .....

Although the true meaning of the word is 'enemy', some people believe that the reason you love someone so deeply to the point of being willing to do anything, give anything, betray your own sense of reason or country is because you owed that person in a very significant way from a previous life, so you must repay them in this way. Therefore, the word has these two ostensibly contradictory meanings.

Significant pause .....

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting about the characters...

Hmmm, maybe I should check out the fic!

[ex-beautyof.livejournal.com]

I definitely love the snark between Veronica & Lamb :P lol

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Icon!

[poisontaster]

I think we've chatted about this before. In most cases, I am a complete slave to canon. I don't mind reading other people's AU/UC, but in general, I derive less satisfaction from it, and like you, I feel a certain well, what's the point of THAT; it's never going to happen.

So for the most part, Veronica/Lamb puzzles me and River/Jayne (or River/Mal for that matter) just squicks me something awful.

OTOH, BSG seems to have just knocked my canon Nazi of her rocker. I don't know why this fandom is different for me. I don't know why I suddenly have the ability to mentally pair anyone up with just about anyone else.

Maybe it's the uncertainty factor is so much greater here. Any one of these people could be a Cylon, could have a hidden agenda, could be other than what they seem to be. They are, in many ways, blank slates, and that makes them much easier to project what you want to see, in some ways. Every interaction takes on a weird, obsessive meaningfulness as you try and interpret whether it's deliberate or not.

It's not really like that in other shows, where you have an established character, and who they are is pretty much who they are...which actually may give an answer to the enigma of River, as well. Being damaged, and subjected to unknown programming, River is as much a blank slate as any of the BSG characters, giving the fen greater leeway to project onto her what they want and hope for her.

Which is a longwinded way of saying I have NO IDEA why Gaeta/Dee has devoured my brain. I can only slave in their service, hoping eventually they'll let go and I can get back to other stuff. 8p

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

The thing with BSG which I think makes it more possible is that it's not a character-oriented show. It does have very interesting characters but it explores situations and concepts more than the characters (unlike Farscape which was the other way around) making it a blanker slate. Hey, at least Gaeta/Dee don't hate each other :)

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

Heh. Maybe River's actually a Cylon...

[sadiekate.livejournal.com]

I used to write a bunch of Logan/Veronica, but I'm finding it difficult, now. It's almost that there's too much history, or too much dramam etween them. With Lamb/Veronica, I can scratch my itch for snark and banter, and I don't have to worry about all the deep, dark backstory weighing it down.

I imagine too that Lamb alone has really skyrocketed in popularity due to Michael Muhney's presence on the internet and in the fandom. And I know my first attempt at Lambfic was so overwhelmingly well-received, I went ahead and signed up to write him at fanfic100.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, it makes sense that a lot of UC pairing writing comes from a greater creative freedom: there is no elaborate structure of the writers' minutia that you have to move within. No long pre-history already written or a complex future already planned. And of course, you don't have to worry about next ep making it irrelevant as it operates in an independent universe. In a way, the characters are more your own.

100 Lamb stories? Wow. I don't think I could write a 100 stories about anyone *is impressed*

Btw, I really liked your V/Lamb pre-shippy fic. I didn't read the shippy ones, because am canon nazi, but that one was amazingly written!

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

I definitely can see the potential for sparks with Apollo/Sharon and it is that love/hate thing. (And Apollo is listed first here because I see this more from his POV than hers. *shrug*)

The way I see it, he met her for the first time when he came to Galactica for the decommissioning, but I imagine he knew of her from the occasional letter from Kara and was predisposed to liking her because of that. Over the next two months or so (and GOD how I miss the "meanwhile, back on Caprica" time markers!), being in close quarters and not having all that many people left to interact with, he and Sharon became friends.

And who's to say he didn't look at her and see first an attractive woman who was involved with someone else and then *poof* was suddenly available (at least in the sense of no longer being with the Chief)?

During those two months, Apollo came to like and trust Sharon, respect her as a pilot and an officer (again going back to the "whole squadron of Sharons"), with the added bonus of knowing that his father also trusted and respected her (or he would never have given her that mission to destroy the basestar). Then, suddenly, again with the *poof*! This woman he likes and respects, trusts completely, deliberately shoots his father in cold blood, betraying not only Adama, but Apollo on so many different levels.

The entire two months he's known her have been incredibly intense, a pressure-cooker, both with the ups and the downs, and that can create some incredibly intense emotions, whether love or hatred.

Heh. I had this whole really cool post in my head while I was walking back to the office from lunch, and *poof* most of it's gone. *rolls eyes at self*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

No, it makes sense. The problem for me is that for a A/S story, it would *all* have to be extrapolated. We don't see much interaction one way or another, after all. And of course seeing that Apollo already has conflicting, confusing, chemistry-laden feelings for another woman (Kara), I doubt he's noticed Sharon over much. It can obviously be done, and done plausibly (the way you explained in your post) but it's completely outside what the show's given us (and seeing H/B and Apollo's attraction to Kara, is ever likely to give us). I mean, if you extrapolate this extensively, you can extrapolate for almost any other ship combo but yet people don't (e.g. there is not much Tyrol/Cally fic out there, but I'd imagine they'd have a greater basis for shipping that Lee/Sharon). So it's interesting to me that it's A/S that is getting steam. Maybe it's because if a good fanfic writer writes it up, other people begin to see the possibilities...

[ayn-rand-fan-13.livejournal.com]

I ship whatever pairing the best fanfiction is written for. Currently, the best I've read is Veronica/Lamb and Veronica/Casey, so that's what I'm currently shipping.

Regarding Firefly, I am basically open to all pairings because they are all in an extreme situation, and weird things have been known to happen.

Oh, and I read your subject line, and immediately thought of Draco Sinister. See, this is why I need to see BTVS.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yup, Cassie Claire used a lot of Buffy lines. Btw, is DV even finished by now? She's been writing that thing for years...

Re: Firefly. Nope. Not realistic to play the musical chairs because of situations. I doubt River and Kaylee will get it on any time soon :)

fanfiction: it's secondary source material. So, alas, unless it's borne out by the canon, I won't be shipping it. Read it and find it interesting? Maybe. Ship? No way....

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

Echoing sadiekate on the theory that Michael Muhney (Lamb ; thewizrd) poking around fandom and apparently shipping Veronica/Lamb himself has greatly increased interest in him and the ship.

I don't really do UC shipping, so I can't quite wrap my head around any of these ships.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

He has a livejournal? That is just (and yes, I know twee word) adorable

*glee*

[femmenerd.livejournal.com]

Here are my theories as to the popularity of Lamb/Veronica.

1. He's cute.

2. Uniform

3. Powerplay/animosity - people think that's hot

4. The actor that plays Lamb has been all over fan forum and LJ and FBing fics and stuff and people love him. Read all about it here. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/spectralbovine/26639.html)

[femmenerd.livejournal.com]

Nunk. Shoulda read the comments before posting.

[rawles.livejournal.com]

Veronica/Lamb. Mystifies me utterly. And the fact that Michael Muhney is all over it creeps me out, omg.

Lee/Sharon. I wondered the same thing the other day. (http://www.livejournal.com/~rawles/151254.html) I still have no viable answers for you.

Jayne/River. I am infamously quite appalled at shipping Jayne with anyone, so no answers here either.

Gaeta/Dualla, however. Omg, see I realized the other day that they are both secretly Cylons and they run Galactica and have their own plans and meet in dark corridors to be evil and sexy together and are the Cylon OTP.

So, uhm, for me it's just...crack. I love crack. It's fun. To say that I honestly ship them, however, would be a lie.

I have an icon, though!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I can see Gaeta/Dee much better than the other ones because they actually don't hate each other, unlike the other pairings :P

I read your Lee/Sharon post...the thing is, I am always really puzzled by really out-there, UC ships, and this is no exception...But hey, I am rewatching early S1 and rediscovering my hot!pilotsex fangirl so to each her/his own :)

[elegantfaery.livejournal.com]

Ooh I would definitely like to read the fic if it's Lamb/Veronica, my fave VM pairing. What's the title and author? Or do you have a link for it?