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This morning, a thirteen year old, after making eye contact told me "I want you to be my girlfriend. Won't have it any other way." I am afraid I couldn't help but crack up as I told him that my husband might object. If he was taller, MUCH older and this was Bollywood, I'd imagine with such an approach he'd go far. But still, considering I could have been the sprog's mother if I started REALLY early, it was kinda flattering and amusing at the same time.
My BSG Baltar/Six fic has hit a writer's block the size of South America. Sigh...
And completely unrelated, I've been thinking about the late trend in Bollywood movies of white women falling for Bollywood heroes, and what it says about cultural expectations.
Bollywood often reminds me of old, classic-era Hollywood. The same love for musicals and outsized melodrama, the same care for glamor, the same reliance on star mystique and power to carry movies, more than any other element of the film. And this is borne out yet again in their approach to interracial relationships. You know, how in old Hollywood movies, this tragic native girl would fall in love with the white hero? Or an exotic Asian woman would love an American? And these stories seldom ended well, with the woman 'other' being either unrequited or too different to fit in, or dying. Because that story couldn't have a happy ending? And how when movies got more progressive in the 1950s, you'd have a movie like Sayonara, where the interracial couple would overcome obstacles and be together. But even in those movies, it's always a man who is white and a woman who is other.
I think it ties in to the patriarchal nature of the culture, any culture really. Women are percieved as vessels of culture, so a woman of other culture falling for you is an indirect proof of the superiority of your culture over hers. And it's proof of the superiority of your men over those of the other race. OTOH, if it's your women going for other culture the reverse is true and is a humiliation and pollution.
Well, it's a fascinating mirror experience to watch Bollywood's approach. I am sure if some white supremacist saw these, he would probably be clutching his head in horror and pulling out his hair.
Because Bollywood has recently been making a variety of movies where white women fall in love with Indian men. And what a fascinating study they are. Here is a sampling (as I cannot claim I've seen every one ever made). I find it very interesting how those portrayals progress, in a very short term, from the pining and unwanted white girl, to Bollywood staple of star-crossed obstacles to something that is viewed matter of factly as any other relationship might be.
Lagaan. I think everything started with Aamir Khan's Lagaan, which is probably the Bollywood movie most known to anyone who is not Bollyholic, seeing that it played in mainstream arthouses, was nominated for an Oscar, and can be found in your local Blockbuster. It's an excellent movie (it was very slow to grow on me, but grow it has) about a lot of things, mainly a peaceful fight against the British in a cricket match, but it also has a white woman falling for our very Indian protagonist. Elizabeth, the sister of the evil British Captain teaches the hero Bhuvan and the other villagers about cricket, and also falls in love with him in the process (who could blame her? Buff and be-earringed, Aamir looks HOT). She fantasizes about him, but her love is unrequited. Bhuvan never really percieves her as a woman and his love is reserved for a village girl Gauri (played by Gracy Singh). Elizabeth actually never marries. I find it interesting that here the White/Indian affair is one-sided (shades of all those movies where the native girl loves from afar), and that the hero of course ends up with the suitable Indian woman. Elizabeth's love proves Bhuvan's cultural superiority, but obviously, she is not worthy to be his partner and sticking to one's culture is best. Elizabeth's love proves the speriority of Indian culture and its men, but also, being of inferior stock, she cannot be rewarded with the love of the hero. It's basically a bit of ego stroking, proving the hero's coolness, something this has been used for in Hollywood movies. Of course, this is a gross simplification. For one, Bhuvan and Elizabeth couldn't have any sort of life together. They are unsuitable together and Gauri and Bhuvan are very suitable, so this is very character and period based. Whatever its subconscious meaning (if any), it's a well-developed story in a well-developed movie. But I find the matter-of-fact assumptions that go into the approach to the triangle fascinating. (Not related but am I the last person to realize that Bhuvan and Gauri have sex in 'O Re Chori'?)
Kisna. The blonde Katherine (played by the gorgeous Antonia Bernath) falls in love and vice versa with Kisna played by Vivek Oberoi. Their love is epicy and mutual, but he picks his tradition over her, and marries his promised fiancee. I find it interesting that in a way this is an intermediate step between Lagaan and something like DJBK. Here, the White woman is percieved as a romantic object, as worthy of the love of the noble hero. She is the real love interest while the Indian fiancee is the one with the one-sided love. But still, it's too different and the lovers cannot be allowed to be together. And the culture really has no place for this outsider. Still, this is miles over such movies like Ghai's earlier Pardes where Whites are percieved as a threat and the White girl is the girlfriend of the bad guy who allows him to go all the way unlike the virginal heroine. Sort of like the nasty men with native mistresses in those silent movies. Only in a mirror reversal.
Dil Jo Bhi Kahey. In this one, Jai and Sophie fall in love. He is Indian and she is the palest white and they are both from Mauritius. Startlingly, they end up married and getting their HEA. It's the only movie on the list who has this (even though it's Jai who goes traditional for a bit to save the feelings of his mother and tries to give Sophie up). Interestingly, while both her father and his mother are against it, his mother is portrayed as a lot more loveable. I do like how the views on these relationships progress.
Virrudh. This movie is largely about a father's fight for justice over his son's death. But still, it's interesting that John Abraham's character, who lives in London, falls in love and maries an English girl, and the parents are OK with it and she does her best to adjust to the culture.
Rang De Basanti. This is my favorite Bollywood movie this year, and is in my Top 10 Bollywood movies, period. And the love story is really not a focus but an organic part of the story which is actually all about political apathy and the desire for change and a group of friends. It's the most natural movie I've seen out of Bollywood. It also has as one of the main characters, an English documentary film-maker Sue (Alice Patten) who develops a relationship with DJ (Aamir Khan. What's with him and the white girls?) This is actually handled in the most realistic matter possible: their personalities match so they are a couple. Her not being Indian is organic part of the story: she is the outsider who sets the ideas clash in motion. And it's integrated beautifully the way it could be in real life: in DJ's initial assumption she doesn't speak Hindi, thus picking some really cheesy lines, and in his last words in the movie. In fact, if Bollywood does more interracial love stories (which it will: India becoming more and more open and globalized), I hope they will use RDB for its model.
And there is the upcoming Marigold with Salman Khan and Ali Larter (though arguably it's not Bollywood), continuing the trend...
I also find the fascination with blondes really interesting. Of the movies I listed, only Elizabeth in Lagaan is dark-haired. The rest are quite blonde and pale. I think here is where Indian preference for fair skin in women (is it a remnant of colonialism? some classist thing? No idea) comes in. I think it's interesting that no interracial love story had a Black or Asian woman involved.
I also have to note the only Bollywood movie I've seen where the genders were reversed. In Mangal Pandey, it's Toby Stephens (yum) as the White officer and Amisha Patel as the Indian widow. (Aamir really seems to like the mixed love stories, doesn't he?)
And because it's bad to have nothing but Bollywood, I bring you pics from the upcoming Superman Returns. The movie will probably bore me, but the boy is hot.














My BSG Baltar/Six fic has hit a writer's block the size of South America. Sigh...
And completely unrelated, I've been thinking about the late trend in Bollywood movies of white women falling for Bollywood heroes, and what it says about cultural expectations.
Bollywood often reminds me of old, classic-era Hollywood. The same love for musicals and outsized melodrama, the same care for glamor, the same reliance on star mystique and power to carry movies, more than any other element of the film. And this is borne out yet again in their approach to interracial relationships. You know, how in old Hollywood movies, this tragic native girl would fall in love with the white hero? Or an exotic Asian woman would love an American? And these stories seldom ended well, with the woman 'other' being either unrequited or too different to fit in, or dying. Because that story couldn't have a happy ending? And how when movies got more progressive in the 1950s, you'd have a movie like Sayonara, where the interracial couple would overcome obstacles and be together. But even in those movies, it's always a man who is white and a woman who is other.
I think it ties in to the patriarchal nature of the culture, any culture really. Women are percieved as vessels of culture, so a woman of other culture falling for you is an indirect proof of the superiority of your culture over hers. And it's proof of the superiority of your men over those of the other race. OTOH, if it's your women going for other culture the reverse is true and is a humiliation and pollution.
Well, it's a fascinating mirror experience to watch Bollywood's approach. I am sure if some white supremacist saw these, he would probably be clutching his head in horror and pulling out his hair.
Because Bollywood has recently been making a variety of movies where white women fall in love with Indian men. And what a fascinating study they are. Here is a sampling (as I cannot claim I've seen every one ever made). I find it very interesting how those portrayals progress, in a very short term, from the pining and unwanted white girl, to Bollywood staple of star-crossed obstacles to something that is viewed matter of factly as any other relationship might be.
Lagaan. I think everything started with Aamir Khan's Lagaan, which is probably the Bollywood movie most known to anyone who is not Bollyholic, seeing that it played in mainstream arthouses, was nominated for an Oscar, and can be found in your local Blockbuster. It's an excellent movie (it was very slow to grow on me, but grow it has) about a lot of things, mainly a peaceful fight against the British in a cricket match, but it also has a white woman falling for our very Indian protagonist. Elizabeth, the sister of the evil British Captain teaches the hero Bhuvan and the other villagers about cricket, and also falls in love with him in the process (who could blame her? Buff and be-earringed, Aamir looks HOT). She fantasizes about him, but her love is unrequited. Bhuvan never really percieves her as a woman and his love is reserved for a village girl Gauri (played by Gracy Singh). Elizabeth actually never marries. I find it interesting that here the White/Indian affair is one-sided (shades of all those movies where the native girl loves from afar), and that the hero of course ends up with the suitable Indian woman. Elizabeth's love proves Bhuvan's cultural superiority, but obviously, she is not worthy to be his partner and sticking to one's culture is best. Elizabeth's love proves the speriority of Indian culture and its men, but also, being of inferior stock, she cannot be rewarded with the love of the hero. It's basically a bit of ego stroking, proving the hero's coolness, something this has been used for in Hollywood movies. Of course, this is a gross simplification. For one, Bhuvan and Elizabeth couldn't have any sort of life together. They are unsuitable together and Gauri and Bhuvan are very suitable, so this is very character and period based. Whatever its subconscious meaning (if any), it's a well-developed story in a well-developed movie. But I find the matter-of-fact assumptions that go into the approach to the triangle fascinating. (Not related but am I the last person to realize that Bhuvan and Gauri have sex in 'O Re Chori'?)
Kisna. The blonde Katherine (played by the gorgeous Antonia Bernath) falls in love and vice versa with Kisna played by Vivek Oberoi. Their love is epicy and mutual, but he picks his tradition over her, and marries his promised fiancee. I find it interesting that in a way this is an intermediate step between Lagaan and something like DJBK. Here, the White woman is percieved as a romantic object, as worthy of the love of the noble hero. She is the real love interest while the Indian fiancee is the one with the one-sided love. But still, it's too different and the lovers cannot be allowed to be together. And the culture really has no place for this outsider. Still, this is miles over such movies like Ghai's earlier Pardes where Whites are percieved as a threat and the White girl is the girlfriend of the bad guy who allows him to go all the way unlike the virginal heroine. Sort of like the nasty men with native mistresses in those silent movies. Only in a mirror reversal.
Dil Jo Bhi Kahey. In this one, Jai and Sophie fall in love. He is Indian and she is the palest white and they are both from Mauritius. Startlingly, they end up married and getting their HEA. It's the only movie on the list who has this (even though it's Jai who goes traditional for a bit to save the feelings of his mother and tries to give Sophie up). Interestingly, while both her father and his mother are against it, his mother is portrayed as a lot more loveable. I do like how the views on these relationships progress.
Virrudh. This movie is largely about a father's fight for justice over his son's death. But still, it's interesting that John Abraham's character, who lives in London, falls in love and maries an English girl, and the parents are OK with it and she does her best to adjust to the culture.
Rang De Basanti. This is my favorite Bollywood movie this year, and is in my Top 10 Bollywood movies, period. And the love story is really not a focus but an organic part of the story which is actually all about political apathy and the desire for change and a group of friends. It's the most natural movie I've seen out of Bollywood. It also has as one of the main characters, an English documentary film-maker Sue (Alice Patten) who develops a relationship with DJ (Aamir Khan. What's with him and the white girls?) This is actually handled in the most realistic matter possible: their personalities match so they are a couple. Her not being Indian is organic part of the story: she is the outsider who sets the ideas clash in motion. And it's integrated beautifully the way it could be in real life: in DJ's initial assumption she doesn't speak Hindi, thus picking some really cheesy lines, and in his last words in the movie. In fact, if Bollywood does more interracial love stories (which it will: India becoming more and more open and globalized), I hope they will use RDB for its model.
And there is the upcoming Marigold with Salman Khan and Ali Larter (though arguably it's not Bollywood), continuing the trend...
I also find the fascination with blondes really interesting. Of the movies I listed, only Elizabeth in Lagaan is dark-haired. The rest are quite blonde and pale. I think here is where Indian preference for fair skin in women (is it a remnant of colonialism? some classist thing? No idea) comes in. I think it's interesting that no interracial love story had a Black or Asian woman involved.
I also have to note the only Bollywood movie I've seen where the genders were reversed. In Mangal Pandey, it's Toby Stephens (yum) as the White officer and Amisha Patel as the Indian widow. (Aamir really seems to like the mixed love stories, doesn't he?)
And because it's bad to have nothing but Bollywood, I bring you pics from the upcoming Superman Returns. The movie will probably bore me, but the boy is hot.














no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:32 pm (UTC)Too good. :)
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 09:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:28 pm (UTC)One of the most fascinating things about India to me is how very very sure it is of its cultural superiority, much more than any country I've ever been to.
Sure, France is all snobby about it, and has the language board, but they also have MacDonalds everywhere, because they won't change, won't adapt. India absorbs everything and makes it Indian, the same way America absorbs everything and makes it American. Case-in-point: Masala Coke. It's Coke with spices and rock-salt in it, and taste almost nothing like Coke anymore.
So it's not surprising to me that Bollywood has white women seeing the cultural superiority of Indian men in the movies. This may also be a backlash against the real trend which is many well-educated young Indian women prefering white men who are more open about sexuality and less traditional.
Your take on this is very interesting.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:04 pm (UTC)And I think it also ties in with who the audience is. There aren't that many movies where a Hindu girl falls for a Muslim guy (e.g. Salman's TNPB is the only one I can think of, and the story is complicated by the fact that he was acting as a Hindu during his amnesia), but the other way around, all the time in movies. (Actually, even movies with both protagonists as Muslims are rare and usually involve the topics of terrorism or sectarian violence). The Jo Shmo seeing the movie wants to imagine himself getting the heroine, I guess, so it reflects that aspiration a bit, I think.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-08 06:24 am (UTC)The trend among Asian-Canadian women to marry white guys, and to be very vocal about their (general) preference for white guys, is even more apparent. I suspect because the Sikh girls I grew up with would have to deal with family disapproval not only on ethnic grounds but also on religious grounds if they married a white guy, whereas many Asian-Canadians are some denomination of Christian or are agnostic, so the religious issue isn't a big hurdle the way it is in the Sikh community. Many of the Sikh girls I knew in high school said they intended to date white guys, but anticipated heavy opposition from their families. The Asian girls I knew didn't have so much pressure from their families. The more significant pressure wasn't against Asian woman/white man relationships but against relationships between young people from different Asian countries. i.e. I had a Korean-Canadian friend in university whose boyfriend was Japanese-Canadian, and both her family and his family were horrified! She avoided telling her family about him until they'd been dating for a long time, because she said she'd known her parents would react very badly. It sounded like they would've much preferred her to have a white boyfriend.
Anyway, I think it's fascinating that the same things are happening in India. Makes sense, though, that it would be a trend, given that India's middle-class has expanded rapidly in the past few decades (or so I'm told), and thus there are presumably a lot of educated young women who are interested in finding a husband whose ideas are more in line with theirs than a guy who's steeped in patriarchal norms (not that there aren't white Canadian guys who don't behave that way, because there are, but there seems to be a larger proportion of white guys who don't think a woman's only ambition should be to have their babies and cook their dinners). Mind you, I'm a little surprised, because I didn't think there were THAT many single, eligible white guys living in India!
no subject
Date: 2006-06-08 05:41 pm (UTC)I have a few friends who are initially from Russia who only want to marry American guys because they will be more OK with sharing chores. So I see it's a widespread thing.
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Date: 2006-06-07 07:31 pm (UTC)And as for the fairer is better mentality in Indian culture, I guess some of it is colonialism. Maybe something about the caste system as well.
I don't know, it really pisses me off. I tried googling it, and found this blog entry, which seems relatively interesting and has some relevant comments.
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:01 pm (UTC)And that blog entry is fascinating. Thanks for linking me!
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Date: 2006-06-08 12:02 am (UTC)Just, you know... More so with hair.
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Date: 2006-06-07 07:34 pm (UTC)... ?! No they didn't lol - this was a period piece and suggestive as it might seem... for one thing, that wouldn't happen at that time, especially not in a village environment like that...
no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:53 pm (UTC)Also, I deserve a third of the credit for this entry. ;-)
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:56 pm (UTC)And you totally get credit!
When's a good time to call, btw?
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Date: 2006-06-07 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:45 pm (UTC)I'm pretty meh on this. Never did care for Superman, though. Bryan Singer is directing, which might make it worthwhile...
I'll just...wait for someone to drag me to it. Thanks for the pics though!
no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:51 pm (UTC)As for Superman, Brandon Routh really does nothing for me. He's a bit too cookie cutter good looking. Not someone's face I'd remember for a long time. I've come to realize that I tend to pick guys who are distinctive looking
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Date: 2006-06-07 07:57 pm (UTC)They're not women who would be confused with being Indian even from the back.
That's true. And of course, Lagaan makes me think of another interesting mirror reversal. Period movies would always have beautiful waltzing or what not, contrasted to the savage dances of the natives. But watching Lagaan, and its waltzes contrasted with Bolly numbers, I am struck by how pale and structured and dull the waltz seems (however gorgeously filmed in the movie) in contrast to the vibrancy of things like temple dancing in the movie...
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:06 pm (UTC)Unfortunately, I tend to only want long term, meaningful relationships with my beefcake. I'm not into one movie stands with my beefcake. I can't discard my beefcake like so many Teen Beat magazines.
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 09:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-08 05:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:56 pm (UTC)It's been a while since I saw it but was that the "rolling around in hay" bit? I seem to recall something like that and it cracked my friend up because she'd just heard a teacher of hers talk about sexuality in Suomifilmi (old Finnish movies) where it was always like that, a girl and a boy going to a barn or coming out of a barn with hay all over them or in the fields when the hay was gathered and piled (as it was in Lagaan, I think).
It is suggestive but I think it was just making out or something. Because the two S-words go hand-in-hand. "No sex before shaadi". ;p
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:00 pm (UTC)And yeah, they were lying in the hay :)
Mmmmm. Hot icon!
P.S. It seems I am merrily carrying on the fight with chandranc despite my eralier good intentions. He pmed me and asked me if I was the one who reported him to a mod. :P I've actually stopped being annoyed and am now amused and enjoying the fight because seriously...talk about someone who has it coming. Heh.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 09:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 07:59 pm (UTC)An *American* boy approached you like this? LOL! I had something similar happen in Mexico (many years ago, ahem), but then *all* the men were very...uh...expressive...like that. I mean they managed to express appreciation in a way that was flattering but not overbearing. It was shocking at first, but I rather missed it when I got home ;->
Lagaan. I think everything started with Aamir Khan's Lagaan, which is probably the Bollywood movie most known to anyone who is not Bollyholic, seeing that it played in mainstream arthouses, was nominated for an Oscar, and can be found in your local Blockbuster.
Ah yes! The only Bollywood movie I have ever seen! It was amusing, but alas did not make a convert of me...
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:01 pm (UTC)I think Lagaan gets really bogged down in all the sports...
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:14 pm (UTC)I have also wondered about that part in the song. I just assumed they were being romantic and loving, but not that they quite had sex. That's just the conclusion I came to after many years of thought. ;)
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 10:58 pm (UTC)but the boy is hot. He totally is, and he spookily looks like the previos guy.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-08 02:55 pm (UTC)Re: Lagaan. It's good but I find it really slow because I know nothing about cricket.