Musings of the Obsessive Kind

If it was my boyfriend, he'd be missing digits. And by "missing," I mean I'd be feeding them to Backup.

What is WRONG with Veronica? She doesn't tolerate anyone's BS or bad behavior. In fact, in some cases (Logan) she piles on in excess of any possibly fault. But with Duncan, it's like her freaking spine melts away.

I don't like her when she is with him. Ugh.

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Aw, c'mon, you can't not love Veronica. That I don't necessarily like her a lot all the time is the best part of the character IMO.

But yes, die Duncan. Even if he isn't responsible for the Meg-nancy. And no, I don't know why I've this bug about Duncan not being the father. I don't like Duncan, I don't like Duncan and Veronica together but, while I accept that it's possible, I still can't get my head around Duncan knocking up Meg and offering Veronica no explaination beyond "it doesn't have anything to do with us" -- the only thing I can think of is that Duncan's dream where Meg says "only you can save me" and the thing with the computer and Lizzie turning to Duncan mean something more than they appear at face value.

Could Duncan be taking the fall for getting Meg pregnant? Would he sacrfice his relationship with Veronica to help out Meg? Or is he just a scumsucking rich prick — I'd say this storyline is make or break time for Duncan's character....

I don't know why I feel the need to cling to alternate explainations. I don't like Duncan. I don't. Really.

What's wrong with me?

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Heh.

I can't possibly imagine Duncan not being the baby's daddy. Too many twists as is. Also, Virginal Meg, who didn't even do anything other than kiss on the lips before Duncan all of a sudden is fooling around on Duncan with other men? I can't buy it.

The spawn is Duncan's and Duncan must die. Or at least leave forever.

And at this point, I don't even want L/V together because any girl who thought Duncan Kane was a dream boat shouldn't be inflicted on any guy I like.

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Too many twists as is.

LOL, there is not such thing as "Too many twists." on Veronica Mars (not that I necessarily boy this particular one, just saying...).

Also, Virginal Meg, who didn't even do anything other than kiss on the lips before Duncan all of a sudden is fooling around on Duncan with other men?

Abusive!Cultist!ClosetLockign!Daddy dearest?

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Abusive!Cultist!ClosetLockign!Daddy dearest?

That's what I'm wondering, although that does seem a little toooo out there (if there is such a thing on VM).

I get Duncan dumping Meg for Veronica. I can even see Duncan continuing to date Meg right up to the minute Veronica gave any indication he wanted her back. But sleeping with Meg, knocking her up and being totally blank about it seems passive even for Doughnut.

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That's what I'm wondering, although that does seem a little toooo out there (if there is such a thing on VM).

Like said, I'm not really buying it either. I just think the possibility should be mentioned. Plus it would be kinda dark even for VM. I could picture it not being the daddy himself but maybe somebody having to do with their religion if there is such a thing behind it?

But sleeping with Meg, knocking her up and being totally blank about it seems passive even for Doughnut.

Well, just like I would never underestimate VM's potential for twists, I would underestimate his potential for passivity either. ;D

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Grrr, wouldn't. Not would.

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I wouldn't underestimate his potential for passivity either. ;D

Ditto. I think this is the storyline where we find out for once and all if Duncan is hero or heel and maybe Veronica will call him on walking out the morning after Shelly Pomroy's party. And I guess a lot of how the story plays out depends on whether or not Doughnut's the 'Friend of Veronica' who dies in the next ep. And fie on whoever wrote that treaser, btw.

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I think this is the storyline where we find out for once and all if Duncan is hero or heel

I'm very curious about this. Because usually has a tendency to go for gray, good sides as well as bad sides, characters. Excepts those times where they truely go for full blown villain a la Aaron.

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I think Duncan is not a puppy strangler (that requires active action) but that is the best I can say for him. He is so passive and conflict-avoiding and so solipcistic that there is nothing admirable about him.

I think what frustrates me the most is the disconnect between how most viewers percieve the character (from boring to hateful) and how the writers seem, and the characters do, to percieve him (from admirable to flawed but still good).

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I don't know. Consider that he supposedly will be written off (I read that here, right?) and that there has been quite some screentime dedicated to him this season, I could see the writers planning something for him, whatever it may be.

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Yes, all signs point to him being written off.

But he can be written off as taking the baby and riding as a perfect knight into sunset and then I will have to strangle a puppy.

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Are we allowed to root for suicide if the person isn't real? 'Cause that would really mess Veronica up and I love it when Veronica's messed up.

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Kill! Kill! Kill!

Chant it! :P

But I still think Duncan is more apt to take someone else out and not himself.

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Massive Columbine-style suicide by cop using Big Dick's glock (which he would have stolen from Logan)?

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Oh and would be fun. And yes, it would totally mess up Veronica.

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I think that's the dichotomy that, one way or another, is going to come to a head. I think Doughnut skates in the VM-verse on being passive - he's not a bad guy because he doesn't do anything - but that RT & co. are putting him a position where he has to act. Logan is an ass but he has a deep-down sense of well, not decency, but what's righteous (see his interactions with Weevil) that Duncan has yet to show, which frustrates the audience because we want the drama and the excitement that comes from situations with challenge the characters but within the VM-verse there's no reason for people outside of the immediate circle of Duncan, Logan and Veronica (and Meg) to think of Duncan as a bad guy. And L and V let Duncan slide on the basis of friendship, which doesn't necessarily make them the best judges of the kind of man he's developing into (weak, spoilt, avoidant).

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I think that's the dichotomy that, one way or another, is going to come to a head

I really hope so.

he's not a bad guy because he doesn't do anything

But as we see, his not doing anything can lead to some horrid consequences. We saw it in first season too, with the not!rape, when he didn't talk to V about it. But then this got glossed over this season, so I am far from sure that his avoidance-actually-causing-problems thing will be explored this season at all.

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But as we see, his not doing anything can lead to some horrid consequences. We saw it in first season too, with the not!rape, when he didn't talk to V about it. But then this got glossed over this season, so I am far from sure that his avoidance-actually-causing-problems thing will be explored this season at all.

At this point, I'm willing to believe that Shelly Pomroy's hasn't been forgetten by the writers (if for no other reason than RT frequently references ATttD among his favourite episodes). We may yet see Duncan reap what he has sown.

Ew. That pun is nasty. My bad.

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We may yet see Duncan reap what he has sown

Heee. I really hope the party hasn't been completely forgotten. Because it is just bizarre that this never comes up again between Duncan and Veronica. If they didn't start to date again, then fine. But now?

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I really doubt they'd go the incest route. Besides, why would Meg be bitchy to Veronica then?

Also, the thing with the Mannings is that they mentally abused Grace. Not sexually or physically. These were private emails from Meg, so she didn't have to conceal things.

And also, unless the sexual abuse started over the summer (dubious. Why start now?) I doubt earlier Meg would be so well adjusted if she was an abuse victim. Her MO does fit a girl who had sex with a guy she had a thing for and lost her virginity and sweetness. And her family also became extra religious because of Meg being knocked up and thus "test" of Grace.

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And her family also became extra religious because of Meg being knocked up and thus "test" of Grace.

See how much attention I don't pay to VM :D

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The Grace thing I'm not sure about but I think you're right re: Meg.

I'm just in a 'trying to out-think RT & staff' which never works. I really should just give it up but I'm an addict and RT is my dealer.

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OTOH, Logan slept with Kendall, which makes me want to get him steam-cleaned before he's let around Veronica in an intimate way. At least we know where Duncan's been and it's not skanky Caitlin Ford. *shudder*

That said -- once I'd run him through a battery of STD tests -- I wouldn't kick Logan out of bed for eating crackers.

I dunno, maybe it's just that I get the attraction of the all-American handsome, nice-guy boyfriend. I get that fairy tale and why Veronica wants it. I know it's not going to work. You know it's not going to work but at 18, I would have crawled over ground glass for a guy like Duncan and dismissed Logan as an irretrievable asshole.

The nice thing about age, you do, sometimes, manage to become a better judge of character and occasionally learn to see past the surface people present.

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Logan slept with Kendall, which makes me want to get him steam-cleaned before he's let around Veronica in an intimate way.

Heh. I would imagine Logan knows how to use condoms. Of course, tests are a must, but then they are a must for any boyfriend :P

At least we know where Duncan's been

Do we? That boy is so blank and disassociated, he could have been sleeping with the entire San Diego Cheerleading team and we wouldn't know it. Ugh.

I get the attraction of the all-American handsome, nice-guy boyfriend.

I get that too (though in RL this gets boring really quick), what I don't get is Veronica not seeing that Duncan is far, far, FAR from that. Troy last year (before we had that reveal) definitely qualified. Duncan? You'd have to be willfully, stupidly blind not to see he is nowhere near. And I could buy her blindness despite is all if:
a. She is not normally portrayed as a dumbbell and
b. she was swept away by passion and didn't want to think.

But Veronica does have an IQ and she is not swept by passion despite her better judgment.

crawled over ground glass for a guy like Duncan and dismissed Logan as an irretrievable asshole

Really? But is Duncan, even superficially, a dream boat? Does he devote all his time to her, buy her flowers, say mushy things. All the normal high school girl status boyfriend stuff? No. Not at all.

And with Logan, I know a lot of high school girls who'd find the fantasy of "saving" the hot, madly intensely into you boy irresistable despite how unrealistic it is.

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Really? But is Duncan, even superficially, a dream boat? Does he devote all his time to her, buy her flowers, say mushy things. All the normal high school girl status boyfriend stuff? No. Not at all.

Yeah but reality and the perception of it at 18 are far apart. At 18 I would have totally pined over Duncan. Of course, I wouldn't have known him as well as Veronica, so she doesn't exactly have that excuse.

There's a poster on TWOP who theorizes that Veronica's committed to Duncan because it allows her to gloss over the date-rape at Shelly Pomroy's party, a sort of "if we're in love and meant to be together than I can totally write that one off to circumstances and pretend that it never happened and everything happened from the time I woke up the next morning until now doesn't matter."

As for Logan, ITA that the "saving the bad boy" fantasy starts pretty young but I'm not convinced that in high school, I'd have thought of Logan that way. I think I would have been more in the Captain Krunk "Cock of the Walk/Rosemary's Baby: the Teen Years" camp with regards to Logan. *sigh*

I love Logan, asshattery and all.

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I think I would have been more in the Captain Krunk "Cock of the Walk/Rosemary's Baby: the Teen Years" camp with regards to Logan

And I would buy Veronica's reaction being similar, if it wasn't for their relationship at the end of S2 where he really was a teen girl's idea of a dream boyfriend in many ways: asking her out on boat dates, standing up for her in front of everybody, telling her he wants to protect her, giving her space as needed, even coming to her after he got a severe beating as a result of her actions. Oh, and telling her he loved her. After all that, he definitely moves into "bad booy you want to save" category for a high school girl. Basically, as soon as they kissed in WoCD, there was no way she wouldn't have the potential for that side of Logan.

Basically, it's a catch-22. If Veronica is being a typical teen girl, she should hold into Logan with claws of steel. If she isn't, then her insistence on Duncan as dream-boaty makes no sense because then she should see he is a psycho. Or at least undesirable as a partner because of all those secretive etc issues.

Veronica's committed to Duncan because it allows her to gloss over the date-rape at Shelly Pomroy's party, a sort of "if we're in love and meant to be together than I can totally write that one off to circumstances and pretend that it never happened and everything happened from the time I woke up the next morning until now doesn't matter."

That's actually pretty insightful and I think makes some twisted sense. Also explains why she went all the way in S2 with Duncan while she never got past second base with Logan all summer.

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Basically, it's a catch-22. If Veronica is being a typical teen girl, she should hold into Logan with claws of steel. If she isn't, then her insistence on Duncan as dream-boaty makes no sense because then she should see he is a psycho. Or at least undesirable as a partner because of all those secretive etc issues.

My theory on this (and pardon me if I'm repeating myself) is that Logan scared Veronica off by telling he that he was in love with her. Her first response was to play it off, deflect it with a joke. I like the way RT echoes that moment in Driver's Ed when Keith says he doesn't know what he would have done if Veronica had been on the bus and Veronica uses humour to deflect the emotion again.

In her own way, Veronica is terrified of Logan -- of being out of control, of feeling too deeply, of letting someone get close enough to hurt her again. So she goes back to Duncan, who represents comfort and familiarity and allows her to gloss over a lot of the terrible stuff that happened to her over the past two years.

Whereas Logan represents risk, both emotional and physical: he can be unstable, he makes emotional demands of her, and he can make her act just as crazy as he does (all that hot and crazy make-out from last season). Logan's behaviour gives Veronica an excuse to break up with him (and stay broken up with him) without examining her feelings for him. As Logan said, it would be so much better if she really were indifferent to him.

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of feeling too deeply, of letting someone get close enough to hurt her again.

I do agree. And that is why she lets so much of Duncan's odd behavior slide. She doesn't care enough about him and the relationship to let it bother her. It's like one of those marriage of convenience situations in 18th century where neither partner minded the other cheating because why do they care? They aren't emotionally attached.

Logan scared Veronica off by telling he that he was in love with her. Her first response was to play it off, deflect it with a joke

Yup. She is uncomfortable with deep emotion. Even in S1, you get the feeling that Veronica is constantly trying to reduce the whole messy and complex thing with Logan to "fuckbuddy who only affects my hormones" thing.

Logan's behaviour gives Veronica an excuse to break up with him (and stay broken up with him) without examining her feelings for him

Exactly. She is hardly Miss Self-Analysis. If Logan did behave perfectly well (though how unlikely would that be? Anyone would fall apart after what happened), I wonder how she would have dealt?

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missmarch.livejournal.com

ITA. If she hasn't broken with him by the end of ep 10, I'm going to be very disappointed. I'm trying to imagine how she'd react to Logan if he had done the same thing. Can you picture it? She'd rip him several new ones.

The main issue I have is not that she's pregnant, because mistakes happen (although I hope it was birth control failure, and not for lack of using it, because that would be too stupid for them) but these two things:

1. I hate that he deflowered Meg and then dumped her shortly after, and then started stalking Veronica right after that.

2. I hate that he knew she was pregnant and he didn't mention it until Veronica confronted him with it.

Seriously, I think the writers just want us to hate him.

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Seriously, I think the writers just want us to hate him.

If they do, they are doing an excellent job.

If Logan got anyone pregnant (though hopefully he knows how to use birth control), Veronica would strew his various limbs around town. Even if that pregnancy happened before he even knew of Veronica's name and has been secretly supporting the kid all these years :P

Yes, Duncan is scum. He took Meg's virginity and then dumped her?????? Scum. He found out about the pregnancy and still acted as if nothing out of the ordinary was going on? Scum. He tells V this has nothing to do with them? Psychopathic scum.

If I were Veronica, I'd get out of sheer self-preservation. Because if he is capable of being this solipcistic and to pretend everything is fine so well is such a case, she won't have any warning the next time his brain malfunctions and she wakes up (or not) in the morgue.

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missmarch.livejournal.com

You know, I feel badly for Duncan fans. I liked him okay last year, and was hoping for a good arc this year, but I've just lost interest based on the way he's been written and the way he's been portrayed.

I think I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop. I want V to wake up and realize that:

1. You can't go back to what you were before
2. Duncan isn't perfect or "pure"
3. Normal is overrated.

I'm starting to wonder if that's ever going to happen. I think it's the combination of the preview and what RT said in the UPN interview yesterday that has me worried.

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I think it's the combination of the preview and what RT said in the UPN interview yesterday that has me worried.

Exactly. I want at least part of the realization be internal. Extrnal obstacles? Fine. But I want Veronica to realize that she and Dunk are just compatible any more and I am doubtful...

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hercircumstance.livejournal.com

I don't think Veronica broke up with Logan because she didn't have feelings for him. I think what she keeps going back to is the issue of Logan getting into trouble over and over again and the potential of losing yet another person she has let in (Lily, dead-beat mom, Wallace). Just a couple episodes ago she yelled at him for having a gun because of what it could do to him. Before that she wasn't happy with him for participating in the class warfare because he could get hurt. When she broke up with him is was because of the trouble he had gotten into yet again. She never said she doesn't like him. Logan hasn't quite gotten that yet, but I think he is starting to realize she still likes him even if she doesn't like what he has been up to. On the other hand, Duncan doesn't do much at all. There isn't as much to lose by liking him. And he was the guy she dated back when everything was normal. She doesn't have a lot of friends. It probably seemed rather stabilizing for a while. And what helped her then will eventually become irritating because Duncan is too safe and un-invested. I don't think that will last after high school and maybe if Logan turns things around she might eventually open up to him again. Once he gets a new-found love of life good stuff will start happening.

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There isn't as much to lose by liking him

Yes, but there isn't much to be gained either. It's like hooking up with a pet rock. It won't give you STDs, but that's about the best you can say for it.

I don't think Duncan makes a satisfactory boyfriend in the least, whether or not Logan is in the picture.

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koalathebear.livejournal.com

I always thought Duncan's eyes were untrustworthy looking. *scowl*

Also, ever since he did the whole Kendall drool thing Ive been very disapproving of him. Hmph. Thanks for sharing. I'm watching 208 and 209 this weekend hopefully and will be on my guard in case (knowing what I do about 210) if I see any Donut moments which threaten to Disarm me.

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There are no disarm moment with Donut. He should be dunked :P

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Agreed. I'm more impartial to striking him in the face with a cheese grater, or a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.

I've never liked Veronica going back to Duncan(In fact, she never should have taken him back, period) this season to begin with, because:

1) He was too much of a coward to tell her why he was breaking up with her. Veronica had to ask Lilly to find out why, and even Lilly wouldn't tell her. And even if Duncan couldn't tell Veronica the truth, he could have said something(anything) instead of ignoring her and hoping she'd go away.

2) He left her to believe for 18 whole months that someone had purposely drugged and raped her. He could have at least stayed with Veronica until she woke up and made sure she was OK. But, no, he chose to run far away as soon as he realized what had happened.

Then he deflowers MegaMeg and dumps her as soon as he finds out that he and Veronica are not related by blood, leaving her pregnant and alone. Then he stalks Veronica all summer while she's still with Logan. What an assclown(and I'm being nice). So as far as hero or heel goes, he's a heel in my book.

This also goes into a wrestling analogy about "heel heat" Both Jackie and Duncan are getting the "bad" heel heat(fans hate them because they suck), where as RT was hoping for the "good" heel heat for Jackie(fans will watch to see he get her comeuppance), and hero worship for Duncan(fans will cheer him until he turns on somebody they like, basically).

== BearDogg-X ==

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