Duncan v. Logan. Deathmatch.

[dangermousie]

You know, last night's ep cemented the difference between Duncan and Logan as Veronica's boyfriends. And not in Duncan's favor.



What a difference between the way Logan and Duncan treat their relationship with V. Duncan hides her from everyone as if she is a guilty secret: he hides her in the bedroom when Lizzy comes around, he doesn't even mention to his mother that he is dating Veronica. Now, I don't think he's ashamed of her (unless it's subconsciously), though it does come across to Veronica this way. I think he just will do anything to avoid any momentary unpleasantness to himself.

And then look at Logan at the end of S1: he only keeps the relationship secret because V wants it that way. And when he sees her hiding from Dick and Beaver when they interrupt the make-out session, he reacts by pushing the issue and asking her out on a proper date, because he doesn't want her to think she is a guilty little secret, even though it was her insistence in the first place. And then, when they get "outed" when they walk through the door of the house and all the 09ers are there, Logan doesn't back down or anything. He basically sticks up for Veronica in front of everyone and tells that either that are OK with Veronica or they walk. He picks her over a pretty close friend like Dick.

Quite a contrast.

Also, Veronica ditched Logan because he's trouble. But hey, at least with Logan you always know what's going on. There are indications, warning signs, heart-on-sleeve. With Duncan, the only reason she doesn't see trouble is because she is willfully blind and because Duncan is scarily good at compartmentalizing. Look at the baby situation.

She might justifiably not want to date Logan, but compared to Duncan he is Sanity Central and Boyfriend of the Year.

Comments

[syliasyliasylia.livejournal.com]

Veronica/Logan 4eva! :)
And what about Duncan's dream in last week's episode? His mental image of Veronica is not very good that I think... Hmm!
And the prospect of Weevil and Logan possibly teaming up seems really promising in my opinion! I'm looking forward to next episode!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I can't wait for Logan and Weevil to team up. Yay!

Yes, Duncan has a severe Madonna/Whore complex going. If that is his mental image of Veronica, no wonder he is leery of her.

[tsapphire13.livejournal.com]

I just love your icon, its so creative and funny. Where did you get it?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It's made by para1

[girlintheattic.livejournal.com]

ITA. I really don't see how V. can possibly stay with Duncan after this.

He got a girl in a coma pregnant and didn't tell her!!!! That's on par with burning down a pool right? She has such a double standard for the two of them, she lets Duncan get away with things she would *slay* Logan for.

[strippedpink.livejournal.com]

she lets Duncan get away with things she would *slay* Logan for.


Yup. Bingo.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

That's on par with burning down a pool right?

I think I'd let my husband burn up all the pools in the city, and a few municipal buildings into the bargain, before being OK with him knocking up an ex and not mentioning it. Maybe it's just me.

she lets Duncan get away with things she would *slay* Logan for

Indeed. Plus, she always accuses Logan of things he didn't do, while she ignores things Duncan does do. I think that's actually, in a really perverse way, a sign she cares way too much about Logan and doesn't trust herself around him...

[poisontaster]

I have to admit that any credit Duncan had built up with me as a character is pretty much going down the toilet, and for the reasons you mentioned. I find myself thinking a LOT of her snark about Duncan "sitting idly by", and wondering, "and do you REALLY think that's STOPPED, hon? Or is it just okay now?"

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think she is in severe denial. Her relationship with Duncan is severely disfunctional about now. She was wrong to keep suspecting Logan of every little thing and try to back away all the time, but now she's veered into the other direction and went severely overboard.

If the baby is Duncan's, and he knew (whether really early on or from the letter), ugh. Scum, scum, scum.

My 0.02

[life-on-queen.livejournal.com]

I think Duncan is scared shitless of his parents, his relationship with Veronica and conflict in general. Once again, we have Mr. "Stands Idly By" in the house. He loves her but he doesn't really understand Veronica 2.0 - fire-tested and jaded - and he's never going to be Mr. Stands-In-the-Line-of-Fire. I think Doughnut grew up being the 'good one' and the family peacemaker, while Lilly was the rebel and the boundary-pusher. Roles like that are hard to break and, when you add his epilepsy into the mix (even though I agree with electricland that his seizures are psychogenic), poor Doughnut is scared shitless of letting his emotions get out of control, so he represses everything and takes the path of least resistance with Veronica, his parents, everything.

Doughnut's a good kid, I think (I'm leaning towards the idea that he can't be the father of Meg Jr.) but he's weak. Much like Veronica's mum, IMO.

Veronica, on the other hand, dumped Logan not because he was trouble but because he told her that he was in love with her and about the only thing that scares Veronica is losing the people she loves — Logan was too big a risk because he does have a death wish at the moment, too much potential that he'd leave her shattered and Veronica's not going to risk that again. Which brings us to Veronica's relationship with Duncan, which doesn't challenge her or push her past her boundaries.

Not that I disagree with your assessment, just my take on the situation between the characters. I think it would be interesting to see what would push Veronica out of her safe zone towards Logan....

Re: My 0.02

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

he told her that he was in love with her and about the only thing that scares Veronica is losing the people she loves

The interesting thing is, I don't think Logan really has a deathwish (as his Russian Roulette scene shows). He is reckless, very much so, but he doesn't want to die. Which is a step in the right direction. I do think that Logan's intensity scared V a bit, especially combined with her somewhat uncontrollable feelings for him.

push Veronica out of her safe zone towards Logan

Mmmmm, I really wonder about that too.

Re: My 0.02

[life-on-queen.livejournal.com]

I don't think Logan has a deathwish, either. But he is involved in some serious self-destructive behaviour and he seems to enjoy having his low opinion of himself reinforced, particularly by violence. That said, I'm wondering if the Russian roulette was Logan's wake-up call on the whole "what's so great about living" question. I figure Logan for that grey zone between sane and suicidal where you spend a lot of time thinking of reasons not to kill yourself (probably what L was doing on the bridge) and pushing yourself to see how close to the edge you're ready to take it.

Re: My 0.02

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you are right. He did seem a bit more "put together" in this ep.

And his desire to clear his name is also a good sign. The boy really does need severe therapy though.

[danceswithwords.livejournal.com]

Also, Veronica ditched Logan because he's trouble. But hey, at least with Logan you always know what's going on. There are indications, warning signs, heart-on-sleeve. With Duncan, the only reason she doesn't see trouble is because she is willfully blind and because Duncan is scarily good at compartmentalizing.

A lot of Logan's chaos is exterior; he acts out. Most of Duncan's is interior; he represses. Veronica tends to act externally on things too, so I think she's much more able to recognize trouble in Logan than she is in Duncan. I do think crankygrrl's right, though, that part of what Veronica found threatening about Logan was that he's in love with her.

I guess we'll find out if the baby is Duncan's eventually. Whether or not it is, and when he found out about it, are going to have a major impact on how I see his character.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

A lot of Logan's chaos is exterior; he acts out. Most of Duncan's is interior; he represses

Exactly. I don't think either one is ideal boyfriend material (but then Veronica is hardly a Mary Sueish ideal woman either), but one would have to be very good at reading people to be able to drag things out of Duncan. The problem with repressing and not showing what you are thinking/feeling it gives no clue to the other person to get it out in the open and to fix things. It also is a dead bar to honesty essential in any relationship.

I do think crankygrrl's right, though, that part of what Veronica found threatening about Logan was that he's in love with her.

I agree. In a way, Logan's very intensity (which is what I find really attractive about him as a character) worked against him with Veronica. Veronica is somewhat scared to open herself emotionally, result of her Lilly/rape/Lianne/Duncan dumping her the first time/ostracism issues. And with Logan, she wouldn't be able to hold back and have a rather bland and even-keel relationship she wants as "normal." Veronica is a control-freak, and she was dangerously close to the edge of being out of control with Logan so she pulled back into the "safety" of undemanding, unconnecting Duncan.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

P.S. Re: the baby.

Unless D doesn't know about the baby or the baby is not his, I am afraid he is off the list of "tolerable" for me. Hmmm...

[thekatebeyond.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything trememdously thoughtful to add. I just wanted to say how lovely it is to find such insightful discussion on the show. (control_freak80 pointed me to the John/Aeryn pics - which were delicious, thank you - and I couldn't help poking around a bit.)

I only started watching in the second season, so I'm a bit behind in my understanding of the character interaction. The first time it really occurred to me that everything between Logan and Veronica was not quite resolved was in the episode before last, when V got so upset about him carrying a gun. More than just being shaken and angry, I got the sense she was worried for him.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Love the Mae West icon!

More than just being shaken and angry, I got the sense she was worried for him.

Yes. I mean, she almost got her face disfigured, and what is she crying about? Logan having a gun and risking getting killed.

Season 1 is really well worth seeking out, btw. Honest.

[thekatebeyond.livejournal.com]

I plan to netflix it, but I still have a whole season of Farscape to get through. I might just break down and buy it... every week I feel like I might be missing something by not knowing the history. For example, the hatred between Veronica and Duncan's mom was totally lost on me.

Love the Mae West icon!

Thanks! Mae's my hero. :-)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Did you just start on S4 of Farscape? The first half is a bit slow, but the second half is the best Farscape ever, IMO.

Re: VM. Oh yes, the hate between Celeste and Veronica is big deal in S1 and is explained really well, too.

[thekatebeyond.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm on the last few eps of season three, but I've seen the first six of season four (SciFi Channel marathon), so it balances out to one season left to go.

I just looked up VM S1, and it's cheap! I think I may splurge next payday.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oooooh. I feel like a pusher now.

The last eps of S3 are so good. Love them.

Btw, I friended you. Hope you don't mind.

[thekatebeyond.livejournal.com]

*huffs*

Fine! Well, just be that way. Maybe I'll just friend you back, eh? Take that!

/facetious petulance

Yes, that'd be great! I was about to ask myself. :-)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

*huffs*


But (to quote Veronica) will you not just huff, but also puff and blow my house down? :P

[thekatebeyond.livejournal.com]

Well, I would... but then where would you live?

(It's terrible when you get me talking nonsense. I can go all day.)