Logan and Veronica thoughts
Oct. 7th, 2005 12:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dangermousieYeah, I am obsessed. Whatever :)
There actually only two scenes in Veronica Mars that get me emotionally worked up. One is the scene in the Pilot where Veronica wakes up "the morning after" and stumbles in her wrinkled finery and makes her way to the Sheriff to make her rape allegation. And Lamb laughs in her face. You can see her crumble as she realizes that she can't make him believe her, and I think that is the last straw that breaks her (only for her to rebuild herself, of course). The other scene that gets me worked up is the scene from the Season Finale: Logan on the beach with Veronica. Because there is so much desperate hurt there, and I think what pushes him over the edge is when Keith comes running up and he sees his chance for explanation slipping away and thinks she won't believe him. I guess they both learn how horrible it is to not be believed when you've exposed something really vulnerable in those scenes (and that's why I love Logan on the ledge telling Weevil "What do you think you can do to me?" It's not bravado. It's honesty. Because really, there is not much you can do to make it worse for the guy who is teetering on the edge contemplating suicide already).
The thing is, I think Logan and Veronica are a thing of painful beauty, but I am actually glad they are apart for now. I have no problem with Logan having meaningless hot sex with Kendall or Veronica going back to Duncan for some normalcy. I think they both need to rebuild themselves and figure out what they want for the relationship to work long-term. Because what they had before was hot, and romantic, and very not healthy. Their relationship was not functional. It could have grown to be, if it wasn't for Neptune-flavored obstacles. If there were together for a long time, she would have gotten over her trust issues as she learned he was to be trusted. And he would have gotten over his fear that she would cheat on him or abandon him, and not be so desperate to overlook anything to keep her.
But that's not what happened and now there is too much baggage. They need to work through it. Because you know, he went back to her after she stood him up on a date (OK), accused him of rape, ran off without explanation right after he stood up for her in front of all the 09ers (quite a contrast to Duncan, I might add), and capped off the relationship by turning him in for murder. And even after all that, he still turned up on her doorstep. Part of it is because he has nowhere to go, and part of it is because he is so grateful for any affection, and it's utterly sweet but it's severely not healthy. In fact, I was watching VM season 1 with my husband and her thought that the rape accusation or the murder accusation would cause Veronica to lose Logan. No, my husband is not a vindictive evil bastard. In fact, it would be a reasonable reaction to have resentment. I know I would if I was in his place.
But not Logan. Logan just keeps running back for more. It's a pattern he had with Lilly as well. Lilly clearly treated him like dirt (he knew she was cheating on him), but he just loved her and kept taking it. Even the letter he wrote to break it off? Who knows if his resolution would have held if she didn't end up murdered. (I suspect it would, seeing that he's stopped running after Veronica in Season 2, so he does have a breaking point.)
Any girlfriend of Logan's should write a big thank-you note to Aaron and Lynn, because their "wonderful" parenting resulted in a guy who is so desperate for affection somewhere he'll put up with more stuff than any normal boyfriend ever would.
If you think about it, his self-esteem must be severely damaged, both because of Aaron's abuse and Lynn's non-interference in it, and the fact that all the girls he'd dated so far seemed to leave him and/or cheat on him. He must wonder if there is something wrong with him, if he isn't worthy of affection. So when he does get some, he ends up so grateful, he overlooks some pretty glaring flaws. I think that's where a little matter of idolizing the girl he loves comes into as well (because honestly, he had to have Veronica on some sort of pedestal not to have gotten further than second base with her all summer. It's Logan, after all. Of course, guilt for his unwiting involvement in her "rape" might have also contributed.)
And of course, there is the fact that he really gets no affection or love anywhere, so he is desperate for some and when he finds someone willing to show him any, he grabs onto them like a drowning person. He is so starved for it, that he will put up with almost any treatment to get it.
Plus, he is used to loving really flawed people. Lynn didn't show any indication she cared for Logan at all. She certainly let Aaron abuse him, and I didn't see any maternal actions at all on her part during the whole show. But Logan loves her and misses her desperately. Heck, he even ends up being concerned for Trina when she is beat up. He is used to being treated badly, so when Veronica does something that hurts him, it does not register to him the way it would to someone with a normal upbringing and family. He has no bearings for "normal" in that regard.
Basically, he keeps putting his heart out and it gets stomped on. I think that's why he is with Kendall. She can't hurt him because she means nothing to him. Of course, someone I know said there is a whole other thing about how in VM, the gender roles are reversed where Logan is all about being dependent on Veronica and Veronica able to detach and very hormonal :P I am not sure if I agree, but if that's the case than my L/V ship would definitely fit into a pattern of my other ships where the guys are the more emotionally dependent ones: John/Aeryn, Lee/Kara.
So yes, I really do think they need to be apart for a bit, because power imbalance in a relationship is not good. He needs to find himself as a person and let go of codependency (just as she needs to figure out who she really is and who she really wants) if that relationship is to work long term.
There actually only two scenes in Veronica Mars that get me emotionally worked up. One is the scene in the Pilot where Veronica wakes up "the morning after" and stumbles in her wrinkled finery and makes her way to the Sheriff to make her rape allegation. And Lamb laughs in her face. You can see her crumble as she realizes that she can't make him believe her, and I think that is the last straw that breaks her (only for her to rebuild herself, of course). The other scene that gets me worked up is the scene from the Season Finale: Logan on the beach with Veronica. Because there is so much desperate hurt there, and I think what pushes him over the edge is when Keith comes running up and he sees his chance for explanation slipping away and thinks she won't believe him. I guess they both learn how horrible it is to not be believed when you've exposed something really vulnerable in those scenes (and that's why I love Logan on the ledge telling Weevil "What do you think you can do to me?" It's not bravado. It's honesty. Because really, there is not much you can do to make it worse for the guy who is teetering on the edge contemplating suicide already).
The thing is, I think Logan and Veronica are a thing of painful beauty, but I am actually glad they are apart for now. I have no problem with Logan having meaningless hot sex with Kendall or Veronica going back to Duncan for some normalcy. I think they both need to rebuild themselves and figure out what they want for the relationship to work long-term. Because what they had before was hot, and romantic, and very not healthy. Their relationship was not functional. It could have grown to be, if it wasn't for Neptune-flavored obstacles. If there were together for a long time, she would have gotten over her trust issues as she learned he was to be trusted. And he would have gotten over his fear that she would cheat on him or abandon him, and not be so desperate to overlook anything to keep her.
But that's not what happened and now there is too much baggage. They need to work through it. Because you know, he went back to her after she stood him up on a date (OK), accused him of rape, ran off without explanation right after he stood up for her in front of all the 09ers (quite a contrast to Duncan, I might add), and capped off the relationship by turning him in for murder. And even after all that, he still turned up on her doorstep. Part of it is because he has nowhere to go, and part of it is because he is so grateful for any affection, and it's utterly sweet but it's severely not healthy. In fact, I was watching VM season 1 with my husband and her thought that the rape accusation or the murder accusation would cause Veronica to lose Logan. No, my husband is not a vindictive evil bastard. In fact, it would be a reasonable reaction to have resentment. I know I would if I was in his place.
But not Logan. Logan just keeps running back for more. It's a pattern he had with Lilly as well. Lilly clearly treated him like dirt (he knew she was cheating on him), but he just loved her and kept taking it. Even the letter he wrote to break it off? Who knows if his resolution would have held if she didn't end up murdered. (I suspect it would, seeing that he's stopped running after Veronica in Season 2, so he does have a breaking point.)
Any girlfriend of Logan's should write a big thank-you note to Aaron and Lynn, because their "wonderful" parenting resulted in a guy who is so desperate for affection somewhere he'll put up with more stuff than any normal boyfriend ever would.
If you think about it, his self-esteem must be severely damaged, both because of Aaron's abuse and Lynn's non-interference in it, and the fact that all the girls he'd dated so far seemed to leave him and/or cheat on him. He must wonder if there is something wrong with him, if he isn't worthy of affection. So when he does get some, he ends up so grateful, he overlooks some pretty glaring flaws. I think that's where a little matter of idolizing the girl he loves comes into as well (because honestly, he had to have Veronica on some sort of pedestal not to have gotten further than second base with her all summer. It's Logan, after all. Of course, guilt for his unwiting involvement in her "rape" might have also contributed.)
And of course, there is the fact that he really gets no affection or love anywhere, so he is desperate for some and when he finds someone willing to show him any, he grabs onto them like a drowning person. He is so starved for it, that he will put up with almost any treatment to get it.
Plus, he is used to loving really flawed people. Lynn didn't show any indication she cared for Logan at all. She certainly let Aaron abuse him, and I didn't see any maternal actions at all on her part during the whole show. But Logan loves her and misses her desperately. Heck, he even ends up being concerned for Trina when she is beat up. He is used to being treated badly, so when Veronica does something that hurts him, it does not register to him the way it would to someone with a normal upbringing and family. He has no bearings for "normal" in that regard.
Basically, he keeps putting his heart out and it gets stomped on. I think that's why he is with Kendall. She can't hurt him because she means nothing to him. Of course, someone I know said there is a whole other thing about how in VM, the gender roles are reversed where Logan is all about being dependent on Veronica and Veronica able to detach and very hormonal :P I am not sure if I agree, but if that's the case than my L/V ship would definitely fit into a pattern of my other ships where the guys are the more emotionally dependent ones: John/Aeryn, Lee/Kara.
So yes, I really do think they need to be apart for a bit, because power imbalance in a relationship is not good. He needs to find himself as a person and let go of codependency (just as she needs to figure out who she really is and who she really wants) if that relationship is to work long term.
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no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 04:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 04:41 pm (UTC)I don't think Logan will ever be a great humanitarian. He is just not interested in other people one way or another. But he certainly needs to work past all the issues that make him set pools on fire.
The sad thing is, you can tell if he had a normal upbringing, he'd be a pretty nice guy. (I am actually surprised that with the upbringing he has he isn't killing puppies in his room for fun). He really needs to deal with the trainwreck that is his life before being in a relationship.
Because you can't be someone's personal savior unless that person knows that they need to be saved and wants to be.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 05:01 pm (UTC)The sad thing is, you can tell if he had a normal upbringing, he'd be a pretty nice guy.
From the season one flashbacks, I get the impression that Logan was a pretty nice guy before Lilly was murdered, belts and all. I think you nailed all his self-esteem issues but I think it was Lilly's murder that started him along the path of PJO-ness as opposed to normal spoilt teenaged guy stuff. Aaron even comments on it, which is deeply creepy, considering. It's obvious to me that Logan gets a kick out of tormenting people (not sadistically, at least not so far); it probably gives him a sense of power and control.
*sigh*
Therapy. Lots and lots of therapy. I wonder if there's a chance Logan might end up with some court-ordered psychiatric care somewhere down the road? It would do him a world of good.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 05:15 pm (UTC)Trust Logan to go for an affair with a woman whose husband is a really good shot :D
I get the impression that Logan was a pretty nice guy before Lilly was murdered
The thing is, if he had a solid emotional support foundation at home, he wouldn't have found himself so adrift after Lilly's death. He sort of put all his eggs in one basket with her (or at least all his affection and belief that being with her will fix everything) that after she died, he had nothing to help him cope.
Of course, we get the same thing this season, only worse.
which is deeply creepy, considering.
But then anything Aaron does is deeply creepy. Yikes!
Logan gets a kick out of tormenting people
I think he gets a kick out of getting any reaction out of people. Makes him feel he matters. Yes, the boy needs a LOT of therapy. Probably all that trust fund money should go to a shrink.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 07:42 pm (UTC)I love the analysis. I agree with just about all of it! I had hoped that being with Veronica could turn Logan around, but I was overly optimistic, I think. I agree, they both need to be alone to get their heads figured out.
Logan needs all the therapy money can buy, but more importantly, he has to want to change first; I don't see that happening any time soon. Right now he's numbing himself up and insulating himself from the world. We haven't seen him attend a day of school yet. Kendall is a big blanket for him to hide in, and also a fun, risky thrill.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 07:52 pm (UTC)It could have "fixed" him, if there were no outside stressors keeping him in his patterns. He'd have a hard enough time dealing with Aaron/Lilly thing, without being the lightning rod for a class war and accused of murder himself. If his stressors keep getting renewed and added on, it's that much harder to deal with, than if all the causes of his messed-uppedness are in the past.
I do think Veronica left him pretty quickly (of course, it's in keeping with V generally. She is not the most patient person ever). To expect him to get back to normal within a few months after what he's just been though is definitely unreasonable. I am surprised he isn't crawling inside a bottle or stuck in a sanatorium after all the stuff that happened.
I don't she tried to make the relationship work for long enough for us to really see if being with her would have fixed him or not. Being without her clearly hurt him, though. But I think it's better for him in the long run if he fixes himself.
Right now he's numbing himself up and insulating himself from the world
It's an understandable defense mechanism for someone who's been hurt so badly, but he really needs to get past it to be able to move on...
We haven't seen him attend a day of school yet.
I think he's scared. Remember in S1, when Lynn leaked all that stuff to thr tabloids. He got picked on about it, King of 09ers or not. Things would be much worse now, especially since so many non-09ers hate him.
Kendall is a big blanket for him to hide in, and also a fun, risky thrill.
She also shows how he is not thinking about anything other than numbing himself temporarily. Because that sort of thing just can't lead to anything good.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 08:16 pm (UTC)do think Veronica left him pretty quickly (of course, it's in keeping with V generally. She is not the most patient person ever).
No, she's not. I know it's tv, and they needed to move this along, but I would have expected them to have serious conversations about his violent acting out and property damaging behavior. Instead, the breakup that discussed this seemed to come out of the blue for him, like he was hearing that she was upset and disturbed by all that for the first time. That's not right. You have to have the conversation and give him the opportunity to change or fix the behavior. She didn't even give him an ultimatum: stop doing this or I'm leaving you. She just left. That's so unhealthy.
I love how Logan's story is every bit as complex as Veronica's. Notice how Duncan's really isn't.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 08:50 pm (UTC)Exactly. He really did look as if it was the first time she brought it up. But that's Veronica and her avoidance and reluctance to confront when she is emotionally involved unless she is really pushed. She is really not much more emotionally healthy than he is.
I love how Logan's story is every bit as complex as Veronica's. Notice how Duncan's really isn't.
Duncan doesn't have a story outside of boytoy :P Is it just me, or is TD rather underwhelming as an actor?
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 08:59 pm (UTC)Is it just me, or is TD rather underwhelming as an actor?
Believe me, it is NOT just you. I wanted to like his portrayal of Duncan, but I just can't. There's hardly any personality there. He doesn't have to be Logan to have personality. Logan is a huge personality. But look at some of the other characters: Wallace, Keith, even Dick and Cassidy, or Mac - all of them have waaaaay more personality than Duncan. I can't lay all this on the drugs anymore either, because he is supposedly off the anti-depressants and just taking the "old standbys" - the anti-epilespy meds.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 09:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 09:13 pm (UTC)Exactly! Duncan is sooo...Stepford! The amazing Teflon Boy. It's sad, really.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-07 09:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-08 03:35 am (UTC)I think you totally nailed Logan's wounded psyche here. He's very flawed and very fucked-up and very fascinating. Boy has Issues.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-08 03:41 am (UTC)Friending you back...
Boy has Issues.
And that's why I love him. Perfection is dull.
no subject
Date: 2005-10-11 02:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-10-12 05:41 pm (UTC)