dangermousie: (H/B laugh by bluebear_74)
[personal profile] dangermousie
I loved Downloaded. The show keeps getting better and better.



First off, the Helo/Boomer baby. I can see why RDM had the baby being given away from a show standpoint (babies ARE show killer and little Leave It To Beaver family, even if Mommy is Cylon would be off-kilter for this show), but BUT. Talking from the characters using their brains standpoint, it's dumb. Roslin showed she is not very rational (or bright even) when it comes to Boomchild, but come on, it's the new height of arrogant dumbness: now they have lost any cooperation from Sharon, who's been extremely useful in the past (heck, I wouldn't be surprised if she turned against humans now), and well...Cylons are less likely to destroy a ship with an important Cylon baby on board, than if they think it died. Why not keep the baby with Sharon in the cell and observe it and if something is weird, you kill it, but meanwhile you have an extra bargaining chip to use with both Sharon and the Cylons? Not bright, Roslin, not bright.

Anders continues to be both hot and as dumb as a box of rocks. Which makes him perfect to be Starbuck's boytoy.

I loved the scene of Baltar feeling horrible for the baby's 'death' as it seems to be one of the few things outside of himself interesting him. Though Six's 'killing a child is evil' is a bit rich coming from a proponent of a group which killed millions of children (Of course, I think that Balater in Caprica's head makes parallel observations: she is Cylon view in human mind, he is human view in Cylon mind. He makes a lot of neat, angry points after all).

I never thought I'd find Baltar hot, but the angry, sarcastic, unrelenting Baltar in Caprica Six's head...hot. I also thought I'd like any Six, but I like Caprica Six. And I was glad to see G-Boomer alive, since not only am I one of her few fans, but I am an even rarer thing: Tyrol/Boomer shipper and now there is hope. Can't wait to see what those 'lovin' humans never felt so good' Cylon gals will do.

I won't talk about Cylon notions of individuality and collective because [livejournal.com profile] danceswithwords has already covered it much better than I could have, but I do want to mention that it's interesting that the Cylons that interacted a lot with humans, like Caprica Six and G-Boomer have gotten just as 'contaminated,' have gotten their clear deliniations of 'us' and 'them' and their unquestioning worldview muddled, as the humans who loved a Cylon (Tyrol and Helo) have gotten the clear borders between 'us' and 'machines' mixed up. The key really is love. That is where the understanding and any hope for reconciliation (because humans can't run forever and Cylons need humans to reproduce) lies: beginning to see the other side as not completely incompatible, beginning to understand.

Also, Husband has been watching Last Exile and all of a sudden it's really interesting, what with Alex's torture (forcing him to tell the truth with truth serum to the woman who killed his wife and tying him up with thorns???) and Dio's lobotomy and Mullen's death. So angsty (I hate Delphine) and so good. Also, love messed up, weird, sweet Dio who (until lobotomy) remained nice and human despite the odds. And I love Luciola finally snapping and taking on Delphine's men and getting Dio away. It's a beautiful scene when he fights them. It's just the main characters don't interest me too much. Claus and Lavvie are nice and dull. Love the rest though.

Date: 2006-02-27 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aliterati.livejournal.com
So... I'll be home from Sunday to Thursday. Want to hang out?

Date: 2006-02-27 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Yes please. Wife to a workaholic here, and all...

I assume you mean next Sunday, right?

Date: 2006-02-27 02:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aliterati.livejournal.com
Yup. I'll give you a call when I come in and we can catch up. ;P

Date: 2006-02-27 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weissman.livejournal.com
It is something I have been saying for along time, the Cylons are closer to humans then they think or believe. The longer the cylons are alive the more they become individuals. The more they become individuals the more their society of unity will fall apart.

In two episodes DL and EPIP, that rational the writers have given the characters for their actions specifically those action against Sharon and Helo, the attempted forced abortion and the kidnapping of Hera, have been incredibly weak.

Bob

Date: 2006-02-27 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I think Roslin is not very rational when it comes to Boomlet. I think her loathing of the cylons (understood) interferes with her ability to think clearly.

Date: 2006-02-27 01:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weissman.livejournal.com
There is only one answer

Roslyn can think clearly, How come I never knew that, *Laugh*. I agree but we know Roslyn is a bad politician and makes horrible decisions

Bob

Date: 2006-02-27 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danceswithwords.livejournal.com
Why not keep the baby with Sharon in the cell and observe it and if something is weird, you kill it, but meanwhile you have an extra bargaining chip to use with both Sharon and the Cylons? Not bright, Roslin, not bright.

I'm not really going to defend Roslin's decision, because I think it was problematic, and I think it will definitely have unforseen repercussions--including, as you mentioned, alienating Sharon. But I think her justification was pretty reasonable, from one standpoint--the child is an unknown quantity, and having Sharon raise it multiplies the unknown quantity. It's the nature versus nurture thing, a hope that if the child grows up believing she's human and never knowing differently, she might be less dangerous. It's a gamble, and, in keeping with the theme of the episode, it's a decision made for the collective good that tramples terribly on individual feelings. But I don't think it was by any means weak storytelling.

I have so much love for all of the Baltar/Six interaction in this episode.

Date: 2006-02-27 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
it's a decision made for the collective good that tramples terribly on individual feelings. But I don't think it was by any means weak storytelling.


I didn't make myself very clear: I don't think it's weak storytelling (in fact, that's what they should do, as otherwise, baby in main cast: ugh) and it is certainly consistent with Roslin's unreasoned tendency to jump the gun and panic when it comes to Cylon-human connection. I think it's problematic in the results it will produce.

Date: 2006-02-27 03:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
Don't count Mullen out too quick.

Alex breaks my heart, he really does. He's one of those characters like Hotohori who goes through so much and still doesn't get the happy ending. Alex is such a very human character. Last Exile is a really human anime, for all intents and purposes. Yes, it has a happy ending for some people, but not necessarily those who really deserve one. Life is tragedy and comedy, and in a huge dramatic situation like that, a lot of people are going to die and be hurt. It reminds me of BSG in that mindset.

Date: 2006-02-27 03:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Yeah, we finished. I was so glad Mullen ended up living on that farm with wife and children. Yay. The characters I liked had a 33% survival ratio (Dio and Alex died).

I felt so horrible for Alex. I did love that he managed to finally get his revenge on Delphine, something he's been living for, and how cool was it that he managed to choke her, with one hand, even after being tortured for days. (And how stupid is Delphine, to get within the striking distance of a man who isn't dead and who wants to kill you).

I love that after that, even when he knows he is going to die, he dies in peace. And I love that one of the last things he says is "Euris." Very romantic and angsty, and I am not a Sophia/Alex shipper. I think that scene, where she orders Delphine's ship to bits and she doesn't know that alex killed her already so there is no need and she only learns that he is still there and alive AFTER she ordered the torpedoes. (Though I know she was upset he never loved her back, but no reason to blow the guy away).

I was very upset at Alex's death but I think he found peace which is good.

I was even more upset at Dio's death as he never regained himself.

Date: 2006-02-27 04:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
The thing is, I don't think Alex ever loved anyone other than his wife. He cared about Sophia, but not in that way. From her stand point, I understand why Sophia liked him so much, but he never got over his first love, so really, no future there.

And it was the very fact that Delphine was so arrogant that Alex was able to kill her. He's a stubborn bugger too, and I think was holding on for that. He reminds me of those angsty Byronic heroes who hang on to the last gasp to get their revenge. Alex breaks my heart though, simply because he was such a good man to have to limp along through life and then die the way he did. He accomplished what he wanted, but it doesn't make his end any more pleasant.

Dio was just a tragic waste.

Date: 2006-02-27 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Dio was just a tragic waste.

Made me SO angry. Delphine deserved to die for what she did to Dio (who was her own brother!) more than anything else she's done, IMO.

I love that little flashback to Dio befriending Luciola. There was so much kindness and potential and mischief. Argh.

Re: Alex. He is definitely Byronic. The moment he swished his cloak for the first time...

Of course, LE does get across that being Byronic isn't just that desirable: you don't get this way unless something horrible happened to you and screwed you up really badly. If he wasn't so emotionally crippled, he wouldn't be this dark, mysterious, quiet, barely leashed temper guy. He would also be a lot happier.

he was such a good man to have to limp along through life and then die the way he did.

Exactly. I don't think the ladt 10 years of his life were anything but grimly hanging on to his goal and waiting for some kind of respite. Ugh. Hate Delphine.

I don't think Alex ever loved anyone other than his wife. He cared about Sophia, but not in that way. From her stand point, I understand why Sophia liked him so much, but he never got over his first love, so really, no future there.

Yes. I actually think Alex's constancy is something I love. Though of course if he could move on he'd be happier. I thought it was an interesting and kind lie that the whatever-her-name told Sophia that Alex said "Sophia" (when he said 'Euris' instead) though I don't know if it would have been better for Sophia not to think that Alex cared for her at the last. Maybe she and Vince should get together. He is good-looking, nice, and seems fancy-free.

My biggest problem with LE was that I found Alex, Mullen and Dio by far the most interesting characters and they were secondaries and Claus and Lavvie were nice but also dull as bread.

Date: 2006-02-27 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
He would also be a lot happier

You get occassional flashes of what Alex might have been like beforehand. The time early in the series when Sophia walks in on him in his office and he's kicked back with his boots on the table and sort of responds to her with a "eh, whatever" type reaction, which just isn't at all the Alex we know. I personally think if Euris hadn't been killed Alex would have been one of those devil-may-care Han Solo types only with a brilliant military mind.

I actually think Alex's constancy is something I love.

It's very romantic really that he'd still be in love with Euris so many years later and really living only to avenge her, though I have to think Euris would have wanted better for him.

There's also the fact that after he killed Delphine, what did Alex really have left any more? If you've been living off of revenge for 10 years, it's not like you can get it and suddenly move on. Alex and Dio really are the tragic figures of the whole thing (at least Mullen goes on to get married and have kids). Alex is one of those bittersweet tragic heroes while Dio's story is just tragedy in general.

Date: 2006-02-27 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I have to think Euris would have wanted better for him

Yes, romantic in fiction is often dysfunctional in RL.

what did Alex really have left any more? If you've been living off of revenge for 10 years, it's not like you can get it and suddenly move on

The Count managed. But then he did have Heidi :)

Date: 2006-02-27 05:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] koalathebear.livejournal.com
'kay I'm not a Tyrol/Galactica Boomer shipper but I am one of the few people who likes Galactica Boomer. Every time I try to say how much I like her, someone has to jump in and tell me how whiney and weak she was and how I shouldn't like her. *eye roll* Whatever! :) I don't go around telling people not to like characters!!!

Anyway thanks for this post, I was reading so many negative reviews I was wondering if it was still the same show.

Date: 2006-02-27 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Whatever! :) I don't go around telling people not to like characters!!!

Exactly. I like G-Boomer (though I guess we can't refer to her as that any more since she is on Caprica). Always liked her. I mean, there are plenty of people who like Baltar and he makes my skin crawl and i generally want him off my screen unless he is in very small doses. To everyone each own.

I am beginning to wonder though (this is completely unspoiled) if C-Boomer actually isn't long for this world. Now that G-Boomer has been reintroduced, they might need to (again) kill off one of them, and her arc is rather complete: she produced a baby, proved Cylons can love, and now is against humans. hmmmm.

Date: 2006-02-28 12:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weissman.livejournal.com
If they did that I am done, that would really stink, especially after building her up for almost 40 episodes, Sharon and Helo represent the show for me, the connection between the Cylons and the humans. Most of the positive things that have happend on the show have happend because of Sharon.
I think she will be with us for the duration
Bob

Date: 2006-02-28 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] weissman.livejournal.com
I like both Sharon charactes, even though Sharon feels more realized as a person then Boomer. Maybe that will change now that Boomer is really free from her brainwashing and she can be true to herself. I do feel that if they decide to keep her around that noth Boomer and Sharon can add special things to the overall story. But nothing will replace the love that Sharon has for Helo and vice versa.
Bob

Date: 2006-02-27 08:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alexandral.livejournal.com
I am glad as well to get some good reviews as BSG is my first love ;) I will get there with UK speed eventually ;)

Date: 2006-02-27 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Oh yes, I forgot, UK is showing these later. There are places to download though...

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