BSG ramblings: religion, abortion, oh and cute pilots

[dangermousie]

Yes, I already did my 2.17 post. But this is random rambling.

Still thinking about the hand-holding. Lee. Kara. Making up. This is the longest handshake ever. They just don't let go. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be Anders or Dee in their lives, because aside from being a secondary character on a show that loves to murder its secondaries, no matter the shmoopy luv Lee or Kara feel for their significant others, those SOs will always come second to their friendship.

Babies? Roslin, there is a logical problem. Even assuming you are into Victorian labor laws, children are not very efficient things. You'll have to wait at least 7 years before they can do even the simplest labor, and until then they are a pure drain on your resources (and even after that, until they are 14 or so, they still aren't super useful). Considering the fleet has shortages, having babies is not so good unless you make the rationing system work (which you haven't) and more importantly, solve the shortages problem. Because while they might be useful later, for now kids will just cripple the fleet's ability to function. It's not as if you are a settler society with plenty of food and a lot of space you need to populate. You are in a finite resources situation and what you ideally need are grown-ups, skilled ones. Heck, even old people, as long as they aren't senile and can work, are more useful.

Also, abortion issue is kinda different. Roslin was pro-choice, right? But their scriptures say abortion is an abomination? Well, unlike in our world, I'd give this a bit more weight as it seems the scriptures were absolutely literally right about the Tomb of Athena, Kobol, map to earth etc. So the existence of Gods is kinda...more probable. By a lot. Also, can't pick and choose. If your literal interpretation of one part of scriptures is what makes you a prophet and gives you authority and also gave you a path to earth (and thus both proves its rightness and is what made you the boss), you really can't deny other parts of the scriptures because they don't appeal to you. In this sense, Roslin's personal sense of morality might be going against the Gods' literally. It's sort of like Moses arguing with God on the Mountain about 'thou shall not commit adultery.' He can still do so, and can still disagree, clearly, and think it's wrong or whatever, but the argument takes on an entirely different tone and approach.

Comments

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

If your literal interpretation of one part of scriptures is what makes you a prophet and gives you authority and also gave you a path to earth (and thus both proves its rightness and is what made you the boss), you really can't deny other parts of the scriptures because they don't appeal to you.

Yep. Which is why, when Sarah Porter said "the scriptures say that abortion is an abomination", Roslin couldn't answer shit. She certainly wasn't in a position to say that she couldn't base her policies on scripture, since this is exactly what she did when it was convenient for her. And thousands of people risked their lives to follow her to Kobol based on that litteral interpretation of their scriptures. Roslin really painted herself into a corner when she played the religious card in "Resistance", and now she must pay the bill.

While her decision to ban abortion might reassure the Geminese, the result of the elections depends on how the rest of the Fleet feels about what they'll certainly see as living under Geminese law. (If they don't see it that way, Baltar will certainly raise that point.) Fun times for all!

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I think having children can raise the moral and spirits for people and give them more hope and will to strive for the future. This said, i am always for "natural" way - i think it is wrong to make everybody to have babies in sort of compulsory way or to have a propaganda campaign about it . And i am against abortion (This is just me)

[ancarett]

I'm not so sure about the whole scriptures thing -- given the small extracts we've seen, they tend to be couched in metaphorical and cryptic language. One person's interpretation of what's termed an abhomination might be something else, entirely, to someone. It's why we, today, have different Christian sects utterly divided about whether birth control is allowed or forbidden.

/em breaks off to sing a chorus of "Every Sperm is Sacred"

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

But "abomination" (assuming this word is used) doesn't leave much wiggle room.

Of course, the Scriptures might always say "all life is sacred" and that's it and this is where Geminons are getting their ideas, but they strike me as literallists, so...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think having children can raise the moral and spirits for people and give them more hope and will to strive for the future.

But not when said people don't want them. If I was in the middle of an apocalyse, I'd sure as heck wouldn't want a baby who couldn't take care of itself and who I'd have to cater too, at all. Also, raising morals v. starving because not enough resources? Still not such a good calculus. So I think Roslin (who was pushed into a corner) should have spent more time thinking things through...

IMO, of course.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Roslin really painted herself into a corner when she played the religious card in "Resistance", and now she must pay the bill.


Exactly. And since not everyone is religious in the fleet, I can see how this issue will be very divisive. Not because it's abortion, but because of 'do we follow lady who bases everything on scripture' which is a wider, more troubling for people issue and the abortion thing brought it to the forefront.

[kitsah.livejournal.com]

Heya again...

I agree (although I'm sorry you're cranky). ONe thing I've been kind of wondering about though that seems to have been conveniently dropped. What makes Laura the prophet mentioned in the scriptures is the fact that she was dying and would not reach Earth.

She has not been dying for weeks.

(and how DID they explain her miraculous recovery since Sharon was a secret? Or are they still pretending she's dying?)

Perhaps I'm one of the few but I"m not looking forward to the angst when Dee dies. And she will, because, well, that's what people do on Battlestar. *sigh*

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

Yep, i think you just said what i have meant in a way - that it should be up to people to decide what they want/don't want concerning such a personal issue. Take me, i would want a baby anyway, i think, but it means that i have to have a father for him/her first. So with the 99.99% of population dead and other pressing things ahead finding a person you want to have a child with seems to be difficult. But again, bonds are formed much easier in a situation like that.

And most likely i am a minority and majority of people don't want to have children ..

As i have said i am against abortion as a person, but i need to add that i do not agree to the strict law against it, because it is taking a freedom of choice - to believe Gods or God is a free choice, otherwise it doesn't make sense. People who do believe Gods will not have abortion anyway if this is waht their scriptures say.

Roslin seemed to me a person who says "let's have babies now". I think this is a wrong position, because in the ultimate way it is taking away people's freedom too. Through propaganda. BUT - not better is limiting of the population and forbidding them to have babies because of supply shortage. This is taking away freedom too.

Or , i am muddled up. All i want to say - DEAR Roslin (and Baltar) - Please leave people alone to decide on this subject! And please don't use this important political issue in your campaigns!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I am just cranky because it's Monday, nothing to do with BSG :)

And yes, I wonder about the significance of Roslin not dying any more. Doesn't anyone wonder?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

please don't use this important political issue in your campaigns!

But if they would have scruples about doing this, they wouldn't be politicians :)

[ancarett]

Ah, but what IS the abomination? Is it "ending life" -- which could be considered a euphemism for murder, abortion, suicide? We don't know exactly and I think it was wise of RDM and company to keep it that way. And I'll stick by my feeling that the lines can be interpreted in different ways because, after seeing "The Hand of God" -- I'm in love with the idea that anyone who wants to can see themself in the words of the Lord(s).

[koalathebear.livejournal.com]

And yes, I wonder about the significance of Roslin not dying any more. Doesn't anyone wonder?

I wonder about that, too. Maybe they just forgot about.

Roslin just looks hypocritical - forcible termination a few weeks earlier, now a ban on all terminations and no carveouts for rape, incest, health reasons ..... I realise that a press conference isn't the place to talk about carveouts in the law, but you would think she'd say: "Abortions illegal except in certain circumstances".

I just saw it as a very poor and clumsy attempt to address a divisive issue - ie. dealing with hard issues for the sake of being a 'gritty' and 'realistic' show but no follow through.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

forcible termination a few weeks earlier

But not only does she not view Cylons as humans with same rights, both actually demonstrate the same principle: collective over the individual. in Sharon's case, Roslin thought it was better for baby not to be born because threat to humanity blah blah and here she thinks the threat to humanity is no babies. I am sure she will address caveats in the law at some point, just not general press conf.

being a 'gritty' and 'realistic' show but no follow through.

I suppose any follow through (if any) will come in later eps. I think it's there to create the election issue. I do think it was something that society would need to address sooner or later...

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

Hey, Mousie!
Never did see that locked post for the address.
Update?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Eeeee, sorry. Will do it now.