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elvensapphire quote about power of love in SW Universe.
And that left me to wonder. Yeah, it's powerful. But *IS* the power of love such a good thing in SW? Yeah, it’s Vader’s love for Luke and Luke’s love for Anakin that results in the Emperor being a smear on the bottom of his reactor shaft. Love saves the world, hooray. But the world wouldn’t have needed saving in the first place, if it wasn’t for Anakin’s love for Padme. (Though of course we then get into the discussion how this brief period of darkness was needed to finish Sith once and for all and to restart the Jedi on a different track, so Anakin’s fall was a good thing too, but that is a bit too much into the “playthings of fate” theory that I find unappealing, as there was one heck of a collateral damage).
Yeah, Vader saves Luke because Palpatine is trying to kill him. But there was never any question in the Prequels that if the choice came down to Palpatine or Padme, the Chancellor would have been redecorating his office with his own blood in 2 seconds flat. It would have been true in AotC, in RotS, and every day in between when Vader puts on his armor for the first time and when he dies. The whole trick was that Palpatine (who had NO interest in Padme except as means to manipulate Anakin as she was not a Force-adept) made Anakin believe that siding with him would be for Padme’s benefit (I am being vague so as to keep this non-spoiler).
But Anakin at the end of RotJ is pretty much the same Anakin at he is all throughout the Prequels. He has no great change. So no, Anakin does not learn any lessons about the power of love. He knew that already. In fact, it takes some time to bring him back to his former “humanized” state and decide to save Luke. But he was already in such a state in the Prequels and fell. He does not learn resignation to the Force (more than he already had), because he asks Luke to remove his Mask even though he knows that will make him die. He was always OK with his own dying. He just wants his loved ones to be safe. Which is what he wanted in the Prequels. Which is what makes him act at the end of RotJ. He also doesn’t have a realization that the Sith are Evil and cost him everything he’s ever loved. That’s a realization he’s made a long time ago.
If there is one thing he learns is the power of forgiveness and redemption. He learns that it’s possible to be loved, possible to go back from the Sith. Luke knows who he is and believes he can be redeemed. Luke loves him. It must be powerful to have, after 20+ years, someone who cares about you at last, a person who knows what you’ve done and yet loves you and believes you can turn back. I am sure a big chunk of Palpy’s mindfuck was that “Once a Sith, Forever a Sith” That there is NO turning back. And of course, it’s not like Vader could have disappeared, what with the distinctive outfit.
But he wouldn’t have needed that realization if he hadn’t fallen in the first place. And surely, Padme offered unconditional love. So this brings us around full circle: Anakin at the end is pretty much the same as at the beginning. Due to concatenation of circumstances, what damns him in one instant, saves him in another. So the flaw was not really in his personality (as it was the same traits that were his damnation and salvation). And this brings me to his mishandling by the Jedi. If the Jedi explained that “It’s OK to feel feelings. Even dark ones. But here is how you control them” as opposed to “Jedis don’t have them and you are a freak for feeling them” attitude they had, he would have been equipped to deal with his emotions. If the Jedi were fine with love and marriage, when he felt worries regarding Padme, he would have had a support network and knew he could look there for help, as opposed to thinking Palpatine was his only choice. Yeah, Anakin screwed up. Big time. So did the Jedi. And both redeem themselves at the end. But Anakin does not need to change to do so at the end. Jedi do.
And this brings me to Palpatine tangent. How dumb is it to offer Luke his Daddy’s place when Vader is within hearing Yeah, he has contempt for Vader, and it is the way of the Sith to be treacherous and evil. But isn’t he worried that if Luke won’t take up the bait, he will end up with an even more disgruntled second in command? Yeah, Anakin was loyal to a fault. Palpatine might think he retains it as a Sith (though considering Vader’s offers to Luke, that is false). But as Anakin’s interesting break with the Jedi shows, he’s got his limits. And that little “kill him” bit would certainly trigger them…
elvensapphire quote about power of love in SW Universe.And that left me to wonder. Yeah, it's powerful. But *IS* the power of love such a good thing in SW? Yeah, it’s Vader’s love for Luke and Luke’s love for Anakin that results in the Emperor being a smear on the bottom of his reactor shaft. Love saves the world, hooray. But the world wouldn’t have needed saving in the first place, if it wasn’t for Anakin’s love for Padme. (Though of course we then get into the discussion how this brief period of darkness was needed to finish Sith once and for all and to restart the Jedi on a different track, so Anakin’s fall was a good thing too, but that is a bit too much into the “playthings of fate” theory that I find unappealing, as there was one heck of a collateral damage).
Yeah, Vader saves Luke because Palpatine is trying to kill him. But there was never any question in the Prequels that if the choice came down to Palpatine or Padme, the Chancellor would have been redecorating his office with his own blood in 2 seconds flat. It would have been true in AotC, in RotS, and every day in between when Vader puts on his armor for the first time and when he dies. The whole trick was that Palpatine (who had NO interest in Padme except as means to manipulate Anakin as she was not a Force-adept) made Anakin believe that siding with him would be for Padme’s benefit (I am being vague so as to keep this non-spoiler).
But Anakin at the end of RotJ is pretty much the same Anakin at he is all throughout the Prequels. He has no great change. So no, Anakin does not learn any lessons about the power of love. He knew that already. In fact, it takes some time to bring him back to his former “humanized” state and decide to save Luke. But he was already in such a state in the Prequels and fell. He does not learn resignation to the Force (more than he already had), because he asks Luke to remove his Mask even though he knows that will make him die. He was always OK with his own dying. He just wants his loved ones to be safe. Which is what he wanted in the Prequels. Which is what makes him act at the end of RotJ. He also doesn’t have a realization that the Sith are Evil and cost him everything he’s ever loved. That’s a realization he’s made a long time ago.
If there is one thing he learns is the power of forgiveness and redemption. He learns that it’s possible to be loved, possible to go back from the Sith. Luke knows who he is and believes he can be redeemed. Luke loves him. It must be powerful to have, after 20+ years, someone who cares about you at last, a person who knows what you’ve done and yet loves you and believes you can turn back. I am sure a big chunk of Palpy’s mindfuck was that “Once a Sith, Forever a Sith” That there is NO turning back. And of course, it’s not like Vader could have disappeared, what with the distinctive outfit.
But he wouldn’t have needed that realization if he hadn’t fallen in the first place. And surely, Padme offered unconditional love. So this brings us around full circle: Anakin at the end is pretty much the same as at the beginning. Due to concatenation of circumstances, what damns him in one instant, saves him in another. So the flaw was not really in his personality (as it was the same traits that were his damnation and salvation). And this brings me to his mishandling by the Jedi. If the Jedi explained that “It’s OK to feel feelings. Even dark ones. But here is how you control them” as opposed to “Jedis don’t have them and you are a freak for feeling them” attitude they had, he would have been equipped to deal with his emotions. If the Jedi were fine with love and marriage, when he felt worries regarding Padme, he would have had a support network and knew he could look there for help, as opposed to thinking Palpatine was his only choice. Yeah, Anakin screwed up. Big time. So did the Jedi. And both redeem themselves at the end. But Anakin does not need to change to do so at the end. Jedi do.
And this brings me to Palpatine tangent. How dumb is it to offer Luke his Daddy’s place when Vader is within hearing Yeah, he has contempt for Vader, and it is the way of the Sith to be treacherous and evil. But isn’t he worried that if Luke won’t take up the bait, he will end up with an even more disgruntled second in command? Yeah, Anakin was loyal to a fault. Palpatine might think he retains it as a Sith (though considering Vader’s offers to Luke, that is false). But as Anakin’s interesting break with the Jedi shows, he’s got his limits. And that little “kill him” bit would certainly trigger them…
