BSG: 2.16 Sacrifice

[dangermousie]

Good episode, though I liked last week's better.



Dee, shame on you. Nothing wrong with falling for Lee or not wanting to marry Billy. But you shouldn't lead the guy on and let him propose if you are interested in someone else. You can't control how other people feel about you, but you can control how you treat them. So boo!

Hostage takers? Welcome to crazy land. You want a Cylon so you will hold and potentially kill some people? Great.

Also, Lee is so clever, with the dry ice and spotting the chick and everything. But he looks bettr in uniform.

I am very interested in the uneast but close alliance between Adama and Sharon. I love the fact that no matter how human she appears (baby kicking etc) she nontheless comes across as other. And I like that Tigh points out Adama's involvement. And the fact that Sharon is still not human nor wants to be, she is Cylon as her refusal to tell who the other models are points out. She will do things to save herself and her baby and Helo, but she has no interest in the human race.

I also love the fact that Kara's (she gets extra involved when she knows Lee is a hostage) tendency to go top-gunning half-cocked by the seat of her pants (how many catchphrases can I fit in?) really resulted in serious consequences this time: she shot her best friend. Something was bound to go wrong sooner or later after all. I love the look on her face when she sees Lee go down: she is stunned so much that it allows the hostage takers to get the upper hand. She looks like she is falling apart. And when she calls Adama and tells him Lee went down wounded by friendly fire and it might have been her: she says it like she can't hold it in and can't believe it and she is crying. And the incredulous look on Lee's face as he goes down? My favorite part of the ep. The scene at the end with Dee at his bedside and Starbuck in the background, not daring to come in is a neat reversal of the scene at the end of the ep where Lee confides to Kara about his death wish and Dee is the outsider listening in, unwanted.

Oh, and Bily died. Woe. I guess. I was never too invested in him. Roslin's reaction to his death was incredibly moving.

Comments

[weissman.livejournal.com]

Sharon didn't really refuse to answer the queation, because Adama never asked it. He said what would you do if I asked that question, and she told him She wouldn't answer it. If anything that answer should make Adama trust Sharon even more then he has.

This episode changed Sharons whole position in the RTF, from one of desperation to basically, " I have saved you what 5/6 times already and you know it".

Bob

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Why would it make Adama trust her more? She just admitted she wouldn't reavel other Cylons in the fleet, the ones who could (and are) doing harm and spying or what not.

I can see why she wouldn't: she loves Helo, not humanity in general, but there is nothing in that answer to make Adama trust her.

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

I think it makes him trust her more because he already believe that she wouldn't give up the other Cylons.

If she had claimed that she would tell him who they were, he would have believed her to be lying and actively playing them as alleged.

Her pre-refusal to help goes against the theory that she is just telling them what she wants them to hear. She is willing to tell them what they don't want to hear (i.e. that she won't help) and paradoxically that marks her out as more of a straight-shooter. Even in, um, a difficult situation she is willing to be intransigent.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

OK, if you put it that way, it makes sense.

[weissman.livejournal.com]

He asked her a question that he knew the answer to. Adama knew she would say no, and that's the answer he was expecting from her. It about seeing if Sharon is playing him, not trying to find out te identities of the other Cylons in the fleet.

Bob

[mb2u]

I disagree; Adama was asking her to answer the question and she refused. She is a Cylon. And always will be. She is in survival mode and that the humans are her best choice at the moment. If it were possible to return to the Cylons, she would.

Adama is blinded by his feelings towards who he believed was Sharon. Once he understands inside that that person was a lie, he can get over it all...

And yes, Sharon's line was brilliant. Adama needs to realise how much she's saved his ass.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

If it were possible to return to the Cylons, she would.


I am not so sure. She is actually torn between two words. She isn't human, and unlike the other Boomer never thought or deluded herself that she was. I don't think she even likes people, in general, that much.

But she can't go back to the Cylons because of Helo who she chose over the Cylons when push came to shove. She seems stuck.

[eektruffle.livejournal.com]

I don't think she likes humans in general, but she can't help but feel things for those she has memories of, although the military/show is trying to sever her bonds with them (ie when Kara went to see Sharon in Scar and when Sharon tried to touch Kara's hand, the weapons were cocked).

I mean from the limited amount of scenes we see of Sharon with different characters (ie besides Helo), not sure if we can really say if she likes or dislikes them.

[eektruffle.livejournal.com]

While I'm not sure if Adama trusts her more, but I agree with your assessent that Sharon, while helping the humans is more like helping herself and Helo since she and he would both be killed if returned to the Cylons. She's willing to help the humans up to an extent where it only endangers her in close proximity. While she is willing to help the humans, she isn't willing to completely turn on her race. And that is probably the truest thing that Sharon could and would do.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

And that is probably the truest thing that Sharon could and would do.

Exactly. And I like that. It would be odd if she was in the human fan club, after all.

[weissman.livejournal.com]

I have to respectfully disagree. Sharon answered the question Adama asked her. He asked, and I am paraphrasing, If I asked you to reval the identities of the Cylons in the fleet would you, he didn't ask Sharon to actually do it. There are two distinctly differnet questions there. He wanted to see if Sharon would be truthful, and she was.

The answer she gave was consistant with what we know about Sharon motivations, which are centered around Helo and her and Helo's daughter. Plus considering how they have treated her recently I wouldn't expect her to give any other answer.

Bob

[mb2u]

I agree that she acted totaly within her motivations. Do I think Sharon is truthful when she answers questions? Yes. Do I think she withholds information? Yes. I also wonder if she may not be able to reveal certain pieces of information-like the names of the other Cylons in the fleet-due to a "block" in her programming?

[weissman.livejournal.com]

I don't think she has progarming, if she did we would have seen it already. Sleepers have, for lack of a better word brainwashing. Sharon is not a sleeper.

I think its questionable if she knows the cylons in the fleet. It sosn't matter because thats not what Adama asked her. Kind of cool isn't it.

Bob

[eektruffle.livejournal.com]

I agree with most of everything you'd said. I'm so hating the whole Lee/Dee relationship. I've read everyone thinking it's a nice stable relationships for him to just have for a bit since Lee/Kara would be so chaotic, angsty, and dysfunctional. I guess I only hate Lee/Dee cuz its not Lee/Kara and I actually did like Dee/Billy. Too bad he died. Although that was a little unexpected. Poor Billy. But my husband did comment that Billy was a bit cartoonish. I can see how he thought that. While Billy was a secondary character and not explored that much, he did have a pretty significant role as aid to the president and relationship behind the screen with Dee.

About the whole hostage taking thing. I think it's a little farfetched but I guess it could have happened. What I'm more interested in is who leaked the news about Sharon. Since Battlestar Galactica is a military ship, they can't have a lot of civs on board, mainly just the president and her crew when they do come on. So I'm wondering if it's someone from the ship. Which does make sense since that ship is just a high speed grape vine. Could totally see gossip and rumormongering spreading at light speed. One thing that kind of erks me about this whole leak is that, I would have thought Admiral Adama would have been more careful about news of Sharon being on the ship, like not have her paraded around to his study every time he wanted to see her.

I love and totally agree with your comments about Kara and the change in position between Kara and Dee. Also totally agree with Roslin's reaction. It was heartbreaking, althought I thought it was a little visually awkward for her to hold onto that wall, wish it had been something closer. It was a little distracting for me.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I too wonder who leaked the news about Sharon. I guess the more people are in on the secret the harder it is to keep, and an awful amount of people know this one.

Re: Lee/Dee. I thought it would make a nice short-term relationship free of guilt, angst and issues (because Lee/Kara, as they are now, are utterly dysfunctional) but with Billy's death they threw angst into the mix, so it seems that was not to be simple and so my thoughts are sorta in flux on it.

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

I would guess that the leak came from someone on Pegasus.
They have to still be smarting about the loss of rapist-interrogator man.
And as we have seen, people here love to bitch while drunk and spill state secrets.

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

What I'm more interested in is who leaked the news about Sharon.

It doesn't have to be anything sinister at all. Since we've seen that the marines go off on R&R to Cloud Nine all the time, and also guard Sharon's cell on rotation, it only actually takes someone eavesdropping on two of them talking at the bar about "the prisoner" to put the pieces together.

[http://users.livejournal.com/ar_feiniel_/]

But he [Lee] looks better in uniform.
^^Agreed! I guess that shirt wasn't as bad as some of the others...but now it's ruined. Let's just hope he doesn't break any of the other ones out (esp that yellow one from the flashbacks!) any time soon.

She looks like she is falling apart. And when she calls Adama and tells him Lee went down wounded by friendly fire and it might have been her: she says it like she can't hold it in and can't believe it and she is crying.
^^^Poor Kara. You're right: she is coming apart. I think she's starting to realize she's not as tough, badass, emotionally detached as she used to think she was.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Seriously, I am so glad Lee is in the military. Because his individual fashion sense is scary.

[distant-cord.livejournal.com]

Dee annoyed me in this episode. Why is she still hung up on Lee? Didn't he just tell her to essentially frak off 2 episodes ago? And then she goes and leads Billy along like, 'The man I really want isn't quite free yet, so I'll just stay here until he is'. Stupid Dee.

Sharon's loyalty to her fellow Cylons surprised me. Perhaps Tigh is right about her on some level, that she's only helping them as long as it's in her best interest to do so.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Tigh is right about her on some level, that she's only helping them as long as it's in her best interest to do so.

If she thought she could go back to Cylons and not be a pawn and keep Helo and have Helo be happy, she'd do it.

As to Dee, yes, I am not keen on "a boyfriend and a spare" thing.

[weissman.livejournal.com]

It was funny, Tigh scolds Adama for calling Sharon, "Sharon" then goes ahead and does it himself. *laugh* There must be something to owe your life to somebody what 5 or 6 times as Sharon said. (Both Adama and Tigh have to realize this on numerous levels).

Plus I believe that Sharon still does not want to betray her people, self defense as in FoTP and keeping the people she loves alive, as in saving the RTF 5 opr 6 times, is not betraying her people.

Bob

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I believe that Sharon still does not want to betray her people, self defense as in FoTP and keeping the people she loves alive, as in saving the RTF 5 opr 6 times, is not betraying her people.


True. After all, the other Cylons in the fleet are not threatening the existence of the fleet directly, yet.

[weissman.livejournal.com]

I think Jeff said it. I don't think Sharon would hesitate to expose the cylons in the fleet if she thought they were a threat at this point. This would be consistant with how she acted in the past. If they were just getting about their lives not hurting themselves or anybody else I think she will continue to do what she is doing.
Bob