BSG: Long Thoughts on Resurrection Ship, BSG 2.11

[dangermousie]

Thoughts on "Resurrection Ship" behind the cut.

My show is back from hiatus. Yay!



So much good. In fact, the only bad things were the "to be continued" at the end (I let out a groan of frustration) and that one clunky line of Cain's in praise of Starbuck "she flew right to them etc etc." We know. We get it. We just saw it two minutes ago.

But other than this, it was amazing. In fact, for what is middle part of a three parter, I couldn't believe how good it was. So here are some longish thoughts.

Adama/Roslin. I loved all their scenes together. I can definitely see where A/R shippers are coming from. If not love, there is deep understanding and friendship and caring there, especially in the scene she is in bed and he is so tender with her. There's even banter. Guuuuh. I loved that Roslin is the more cold-blooded and bloody-minded of the two. Who would have thought when the show started that the schoolteacher would be the one telling the commander that he needs to assassinate someone (though as Husband pointed out, she knows she shall not suffer the pangs of remorse for long. Evil but true.) And of course, we see she is right. That scene of Cain and Adama planning simultaneously is wonderfully intercut.

And how telling is the fact that while Adama only plans to take out Cain, Cain is going to take out all of Adama's CIC. Also, both assassins are equally reluctant. Will Cain's assassin try to follow through? I am not so sure he would, now that there are other options than his psycho admiral. And will Kara? She is about the only one who likes Cain somewhat of all the BSG crew. The liking is actually mutual which is scary but I think it's because both parties recognize that Cain is Starbuck only 20 years older, 20 times more senior, and 20 times more crazy. But the seeds are there. She has a certain pragmatic ruthlessness and impatience with obstacles Starbuck has. And I am sure she wasn't unhinged before the attack. Of course, there is also the Caprica return plan (jeez, these must be the slowest ships ever. Are they ever going to get too far from the place? Yeah, yeah, yeah, multiple FTL drives, I know that) which wins Starbuck's approval but makes me want to smack Kara and tell her "you think the best idea you heard all day is to try to reconquer a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by humans for God knows how long, where you'll need constant radiation meds and with no food you can grow there, and that is controlled by the Cylons who are at least a 1000:1 and who kicked your butt so well last time. What other ideas have you heard today? Making Vipers out of cheese?"

And I loved the brief scene with Sharon. This is probably the first time we openly see Doc Cottle show indignation. When he tells Sharon that what happened to her was unforgivable, it was wonderful. And when Adama apologizes to her, even though he hates her and she has the face of someone who shot him, I was so pleased I could have applauded. Because really, how easy (and understandable) would it be to descend to the abyss of becoming like the Cylons and want to take out the destruction of your world and all you loved on a convenient member of the species. But because Adama wouldn't and couldn't, because Galactica didn't, they saved their own humanity, not just Sharon's life and sanity(look at Gina, who really wants oblivion, not eternal life. How horrible is that?) And of course, the little details of Sharon twitching her hands helplessly, looking withdrawn and lost and child-like and clearly in shock, broke my heart. And I love that she still asked for Helo and the Chief, even while dealing with her trauma.

My favorite scene though, is Helo and Tyrol in their cell. Tyrol says that when he gets back (if he gets back) he is going to make some changes. He will let Sharon go for good. And then Helo saying he (Tyrol) should if he can. And Tyrol being incredulous with him sympathizing and Helo showing that he knows what his love for Sharon is costing him and how it's against any common sense he has and he knows how frakked up it is: "I'm in love with a woman who isn't a woman. I am having a child who is, what, half-machine." (paraphrase). And then Tyrol half-stating, half-asking that he really loves her, and Helo replying "I love her." Guuuuh. And it's not just the Helo/Sharon shipper in me, honest (though the shipper is doing a crazy dance of glee). But there have been fandom comments that Helo is stupid for loving Sharon, doesn't he realize how messed up this situation is, doesn't he have any issues with loving a Cylon, etc etc etc. And here we see clear proof that it's something he thinks about very often (and something that torments him), and he realizes exactly how screwed-up this is but he can't stop loving her. He loves her, and that's it. He knows all the issues and he is into this with his eyes open and his love trumps. And that is a whole other kettle of fish. Guuuuh, Helo. He is not a naive bumpkin, he is someone whose love is so strong that he knows all the problems and sticks with the source of them anyway.

There is also Tigh's (and mine) horror on hearing what happened to civilians in Cain's fleet. Though considering they stripped all usable parts and took all the provisions, death against the bulkhead was probably more humane. And Adama's wishing of luck to Apollo and that speaking look, part nerves part affection part still residual incredulity that his Dad cares for him that Apollo gives back. There is the relatively light-hearted bit where the newly made CAG Starbuck has to deal with paperwork and she and Apollo banter a bit (and how hot is it that on being made CAG first thing she does is demand Cain giver her Apollo?). Oh, and there is Six's showing a bit of vulnerability and humanity (or is it merely a projection of what Gaius wants to hear?)

Stellar, stellar ep.

Comments

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

Scary thought about Kara and Cain but, yeah. I think there've already been things in her past that would deflect her from that path, but maybe they haven't been strong enough. Depending on what happened to her . . . yeah. She could still go that way.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes. I think it's people she loves that keep her from the abyss. Cain might have gone nihilistic and crazed with loss and unfortunately she was high up enough she could take a whole bunch of others with her. Under different circumstances I can see that happening to Kara.

[chelseagirl47.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Luckily the people she loves are all series regulars as well . . . but as you say, under different circumstances.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_atmospheric/]

I think Kara will just want to keep Cain long enough to get the people on Caprica. Then maybe she'll kill her.

And seriously, "kick the Cylons the frak out of our homes?" So you can all die from radiation?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

And seriously, "kick the Cylons the frak out of our homes?" So you can all die from radiation?

Exactly. Brilliant plan it is not. You'd only think it was brilliant if you were severely hungover.

I think Kara will just want to keep Cain long enough to get the people on Caprica. Then maybe she'll kill her.

Of course, the problem with that is that by that point Cain would have already gotten rid of Adama etc etc. I also can't see Kara so calculating, not quite.

Re: Cain. If you look at her behavior to the civilians Pegasus found, I don't think she cares about people left on Caprica. She is just looking for a scrap, any excuse would do. The military's job is to protect the civilians. She completely ditched this and now the whole thing is hollow.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_atmospheric/]

You'd only think it was brilliant if you were severely hungover.

That's probably it. I never credited Cain with an overabundance of brains, but this is low even for her.

The military's job is to protect the civilians.

At least, it's supposed to be...but I'm not sure Cain would agree on that all the time.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, Cain is really not into the "protect and serve" thing, is she?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_atmospheric/]

Not really. She'd have so much more respect if she was, I think...

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Women on a whole tend to be more ruthless than men, I've read. They're more inclined to say "well, just assassinate the sucker" instead of trying to get another option. People threaten those things they hold important and a woman will rip you to shreds. I like that BSG points that out.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yup. I remember reading that in some places they did studies and women are much more vicious. True for women soldiers, too.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I really expected Cain to be like, "Are you frakking him? Don't go soft on me just because your're getting some."

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Heeee. I know, I sort of expected some crack from Cain.

Also, I was reading ljs and glad I am not the only one who caught Kara/Cain vibes.

[cyclotron.livejournal.com]

See and thats where you might be right and this gets weird - in the original series Cain dies heroically.

[futabachan.livejournal.com]

...if he dies at all. Reportedly, Pegasus was going to have made another appearance in the second season if BSG Classic hadn't been cancelled.

[cyclotron.livejournal.com]

Yep. My bad.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Not relevant to the discussion in question, but I love the icon. Where is it from?

[cyclotron.livejournal.com]

Yeah - there is that ambiguity - but I thought he was alone on the ship? (been a while since I've seen that ep.)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

This sounds pretty interesting. I am a spoiler whore so I won't say if this is right or wrong, but in any event, this is really well thought out and plausible.

[cyclotron.livejournal.com]

I think that is a good observation that I missed: Kara is Cain but 20 years younger. I think you are right.


THe beauty of the idea of the cyclons being tha same actor, but differnt persons is that the overall character will beable to display a full range of personalitiues. Think of Data and the holo-doc Fron Star Trek. At times they carried the shows.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

that the overall character will beable to display a full range of personalitiues.

That's very true.

Re: Kara. Luckily for her, for all her "I have nothing to live for" stance, Kara does have plenty to live for: her surrogate family, her friends. Cain strikes me as someone who truly had nothing left to lose after the attacks.

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

And when Adama apologizes to her, even though he hates her and she has the face of someone who shot him, I was so pleased I could have applauded.

Agreed. This was also the first moment that Adama referred to CapricaSharon as "her" rather that "it" as in "take her back to her cell."

Moreover, rape is a crime against "someone" not against "something," as is murder for that matter. Earlier in the season Adama decided that killing GalacticaSharon was not murder because a "person" wasn't killed (though, of course, his visit to Sharon's body and his discussions with Tyrol about whether you can love a machine or if love means the loved object is not merely a machine belie this decision).

In all, unless I am madly misreading the signals, we are moving toward some kind of final hybridity where both the humans and the Cylons accept one another as persons and not as things (machine-things or animal-things).

Makes me wonder about the quality of forgiveness, however. If the last act is reconciliation and even love, it is devastating that the first act was mass genocide on an unbelievable scale. Though, I suppose, the Cylons would argue that the first act was total slavery and objectification.

And the nature of the Cylons and their eternal resurrection makes it difficult to use the classic move of, "Well, some of us did some terrible things, but not us, not this new generation."

Anyway, sorry for blabbering on, I have been all BSG giddy lately as I have finally caught up with the series.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

This was also the first moment that Adama referred to CapricaSharon as "her" rather that "it" as in "take her back to her cell."


This is really interesting and not something I noticed at all. Thank you for pointing it out.

In all, unless I am madly misreading the signals, we are moving toward some kind of final hybridity where both the humans and the Cylons accept one another as persons and not as things (machine-things or animal-things).

I think it's the only viable solution. cylons aren't so good on reproduction and humans can't really hide forever. What's to prevent Cylons from following them to earth? So they have to find some means of coexisting though how you build trust after a sneak nuclear attack I have no idea.

Anyway, sorry for blabbering on, I have been all BSG giddy lately as I have finally caught up with the series.

Don't be sorry. I love your VM posts so am so glad you are into BSG as well.

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

I have been slowly getting into BSG over the last six months.
I am even showing an episode to my class this semester.
Heh, I shall spread addiction like a virus.

[utopos.livejournal.com]

I think it's the only viable solution. cylons aren't so good on reproduction and humans can't really hide forever. What's to prevent Cylons from following them to earth? So they have to find some means of coexisting though how you build trust after a sneak nuclear attack I have no idea.

I've been waiting for someone else to pick up on that. Peace truly is the only viable option in the long term, the Cylon detector takes too long to work. The chances of weeding out every sleeper agent without the Cylons attempting to destroy the machine and the materials needed to create more Cylon detectors, to say nothing of the possibility Baltar or Baltar-style subterfuges means the colonials really have no other option than attempting to reach an accord with the Cylons.

Either that, or they'd have to find another homeworld to hang out on for 80 years while they wait for the current generation of potential cylon sleepers to cark it, then getting the generation born after the cylon attack to jump off to the Promised Planet.

[poisontaster]

"you think the best idea you heard all day is to try to reconquer a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by humans for God knows how long, where you'll need constant radiation meds and with no food you can grow there, and that is controlled by the Cylons who are at least a 1000:1 and who kicked your butt so well last time. What other ideas have you heard today? Making Vipers out of cheese?"
Thank you! And YES! I mean, I don't think it's at all surprising or out of character for Starbuck to fangirl Cain, but it's still just a DUMB idea. They'd be better off colonizing Kobol if they don't want to keep searching for Earth.

Oh, and HELO! *swoon*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, and HELO! *swoon*

I loved Helo before that, but now that I know he is fully cognizant and agonizing over his choice and he still keeps to it? Fangirl mode.

[girlintheattic.livejournal.com]

"you think the best idea you heard all day is to try to reconquer a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by humans for God knows how long, where you'll need constant radiation meds and with no food you can grow there, and that is controlled by the Cylons who are at least a 1000:1 and who kicked your butt so well last time. What other ideas have you heard today? Making Vipers out of cheese?"

You make a very good and highly amusing point.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

thanks :)

Yes, I think Cain's latest plan is insane even by her standards. The fact that Kara thinks it's cool is even crazier (though in character).

[rawles.livejournal.com]

"you think the best idea you heard all day is to try to reconquer a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by humans for God knows how long, where you'll need constant radiation meds and with no food you can grow there, and that is controlled by the Cylons who are at least a 1000:1 and who kicked your butt so well last time. What other ideas have you heard today? Making Vipers out of cheese?"

Seriously. That's like the worst idea ever. Making Vipers out of cheese might actually be better. At least they'd be festive and decorative.

Of course, we all know Cain is just crazy and Kara just wants to keep her promise to not leave the resistance all to die. Of course, that just brings rushing back the issue of WHY SHE DIDN'T FUCKING TAKE THEM WITH HER IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT ASKSF not going to talk about that.

and how hot is it that on being made CAG first thing she does is demand Cain giver her Apollo?

Really, really hot.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Really, really hot.WHY SHE DIDN'T FUCKING TAKE THEM WITH HER IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT ASKSF not going to talk about that.


Indeed. Big hull not that many people. And if they stayed to free the freaking farms, what's going to change when rescue party goes back? Because whatever Crazy Cain says, they ain't taking on the Cylon world to save Kara's sex life.

[danceswithwords.livejournal.com]

I think the key to the affinity between Kara and Cain is what Kara told Helo on Caprica--that while other people were fighting to get something back, she's fighting because it's all she knows how to do. That's exactly what Cain is doing too. Except I think Kara actually has more to get (or get back) than she knows, while Cain is empty; Kara has meaningful relationships with other people.

I loved, loved, loved the conversation between Helo and Tyrol. They have so much in common now, the kind of understanding that only two men in love with the same woman can share.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, and of course, Cain is pretty close to psychopath now (though not a sociopath, IMO0 while Kara? I think it made all the difference that when the end of the world came, she had her friends, she had her best friend, she had her father figure. Cain had none of thise (and being a commander of a battlestar is a pretty lonely position). Once she took the first step of the suicidal blind jump, once she saw her men decimated, the rest fell in place with a scary urgency. If Kara was in Cain's place, she might have sacrificed her humanity too. Adama never would have as he is too old to veer off course so drastically but I am not sure about Apollo. He is much more into long term thinking as opposed to fight to the death mode so he might not have, but no idea. Roslin saved a lot with her request to leave and not fight to the death.

[bluehyacinth.livejournal.com]

Making Vipers out of cheese?

The Vipers wear the cheese, the cheese does not wear them.

[kaseido.livejournal.com]

On Soviet Pegasus, cheese makes Vipers!

Or up against the bulkhead with the frakking cheese!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

rofl.

[kaseido.livejournal.com]

Brilliant brilliant brilliant.

I totally agree about Kara - though I know that's going to get me nuclear-flamed by most of my flist, including my Lovely Wife...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

We can huddle from the flames together. I love Kara, but she is flawed, and like anyone else on the show has a great potential to go wrong. That's what makes her interesting, to me.

[kaseido.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think she's interesting, and a good character - it's just that her flaws push particular buttons of mine....

[lpmufinfiend.livejournal.com]

Check, check, check... You haven't missed a single point, and brought much to my attention.

HA! Cheese. I love you, dangermousie. *dies from the funny*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

*is very flatterered*

btw, amazing icon.

And yes, Kara's sudden unwilling liking for Cain is understanding and makes things interesting, but really makes me want to shake her. Kara can have an amazing set of blinders on.

[lpmufinfiend.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I had the behind-the-scenes pic sitting in my Pictures folder, and snip-snip...

Yes, yes she can. With men, with issues, with leaders, with the truth. Girl doesn't even realize that half of her biggest problems are coming at her sideways from the people she calls her family. and then, Cain. Oy, the people she decides to trust...

[lpmufinfiend.livejournal.com]

Wait, no. I switched my icon recently. did you mean the one above? Amsie made it. She's an all-around genius.