Spoilers through ep 14 of Tree with Deep Roots

[dangermousie]

Bad guys get So Yi and this incredible scene follows. I love that So Yi gets back her voice because she wants and needs to protect the temporarily-blinded Chae Yoon. And how they are about to be taken out and CY shields SY with his own body. And then the King and guards show up.


















































































































































The King knows he's Ddolbok and lets him know and I love how CY tries to reach for the sword. But the King lets him and So Yi leave.











































































Ohhhh, this scene killed me. The way he takes care of her in such encompassing little ways and actually smiles and his little fantasy of their future life OMG.







































































And then she drops the bombshell that she wants to back to work on the alphabet. That was such a painful scene - both are principled and driven by damage into opposite directions. I confess I wanted to smack her though - I would never pick ideology over personal feelings. So Yi seems to live by 'personal isn't the same as important' (tm Carrot from the Guards books) but that has never sat easy with me. I hope I warm up to her again because as of first half of ep 14, I've cooled down towards her considerably. Also, fine, do the alphabet, shouldn't you make sure your suicidal OTP doesn't decide to off himself before you ditch? She's damaged and driven and I understand her, but her priorities are not mine.





























Yup, hello there, suicide attempt. He has nothing to live for now - no revenge, no So Yi.

















But he decides that ancient version of suicide by cop is better. Brilliant plan, So Yi, with your 'he'll totally come back and Sejong can persuade him about our great cause.'














The confrontation between Sejong and Chae Yoon in ep 14 is pretty much why drama exists - the dialogues, the acting, the ideological confrontation. That was beyond incredible. Oh, the bit where CY tries to kill himself and yells that in his last will, his father told him to be useful to his master (slavery of the soul indeed) kills me. FWIW, I agree with Chae Yoon - powerless people aren't mistreated because they are illiterate, they are mistreated because they are powerless. If they can read, they will still be mistreated, in different ways. Sejong isn't wrong - more knowledge is a good thing - but what really needs to change is political structure, which isn't happening in 15th century (we see what happens when even the most fusion of sageuks - Hong Gil Dong tries - I still have emotional scars).













































































She asks him to stay and he walks off. Honestly, just jump off a bridge, So Yi. Did you really think your stunt was going to end up in any positive fashion? Seeing lack of corpsicles, this is about as well as it could have gone, and it's still somewhere beneath awful.


















And now I need an emotional break. Also, my craving to rewatch Tamra the Island is getting kinda insane. I posted this MV before but have it again.

Comments

[quaggy]

Don't forget that So Yi is just as emotionally damaged as Chae Yoon. She just hides it better. In a very short period of time, she got everything back... and the guilt was killing her. She's just far too damaged to be able to walk away from everything and just be happy. Not when she hasn't "earned" it. She needs to fulfill her responsibilities first. (And **slight spoiler** she also totally hero worships Chae Yoon and the idea that he might not be able to live up to her expectations never crossed her mind.)

[clairiere.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I think Chae Yoon and So Yi leaving together was doomed from the moment Sejong proposed and allowed it. Neither Sejong nor CY for that matter questioned whether that was what she wanted, they just assumed it was. But as you said, what she wanted in the end was to finish what she'd started. It was obvious in the flashbacks with Sejong that she only came out of her shell when she found a purpose and a means of penance. And finding her dear orabeoni alive wasn't going to make up for all the others who perished that day, including her own father. If she didn't fully understand the extent to which she mattered to him, he didn't understand she'd poured her heart and soul to this project and needed to see it through the end.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

The thing to me is twofold:

1. He was willing to give up his goal (revenge) for her, while she was not willing to give up her goal for him.

2. I realize that she isn't privy to how fucked up he truly is, the way the audience is, but it's one thing to leave him for a mission and another to expect him to come back asap to be pally with Sejong.

I can understand why she is like that - I agree, she's very damaged. But on an emotional level, I wanted to shake her.

[littledelusion.livejournal.com]

Also agreed, and that while revenge is the thing that Chae Yoon lives for, the alphabet is similarly So Yi's reason to live. She's found a cause to fight for - one that maybe could have saved all those people years ago, if such an alphabet existed - and she can't give it up because she's found Chae Yoon. I don't think she could have lived with that, knowing the struggles the king and the rest of the court are going through.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think part of it is also automatically mistrusts any option that makes her happy. She's messed up.

I must note he was willing to give up his mission in exchange for her, but she wasn't willing to do the same.

[littledelusion.livejournal.com]

I'm actually okay with that because I feel like it's very in-character. Cha Yoon's entire existence is built on his emotions: his rage against the king, and later his bliss with So Yi. But So Yi's determination is directed toward the king and her belief that the alphabet will help people. I would say So Yi is an externally driven person while Chae Yoon's externally driven. (they're still both supremely messed up, though. srsly, that scene in episode 12 when she writes about her memories made me cry ridiculously)

So I guess what I'm getting at is that Chae Yoon doesn't really give a crap about the state of the world overall but So Yi sees things in the bigger picture and she doesn't want to leave things the way they are? I don't even know where my brain is going with this.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Your post makes perfect sense.

I guess I am more in agreement with CY's view of the world which is why I felt the way I did. I mean, it's great to have an alphabet but I severely doubt peasants and slaves were less oppressed twenty years after the alphabet was created than they were 20 yrs before.

And yet, of course, the alphabet is a good thing.

conflict conflict.

[littledelusion.livejournal.com]

They definitely both have their points, which is why we all thank God for the other episodes that resolve these issues fantastically. *nod nod*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It's not even the walking away, but that somehow she expects CY to be fine and become besties with Sejong asap. I get the sense she's trying not to think about the reality but still...

[quaggy]

I don't think she expects him to become besties or even like Sejong all that much, at least not to begin with. But I think she was expecting, in a completely not-self-absorbed way, that he would be following her. Because they can't be apart. The way that she would follow him without looking back if she were free to do so.

And I don't think it's So Yi not wanting to think about reality. It's just that her reality is that Chae Yoon is stronger, smarter, braver and more loyal that anyone else she knows, with the possible exception of Sejong. She expects he will eventually see what she sees. (And she had no way of knowing that his father's will would send him doubly reeling.)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I know she is not privy to the same information we are but seriously - I think it's more of a case of seeing what she wants and not what really is. This is a man who just tried to off the king in front of her (she saw him reaching for that sword), who she knows blames the king for his father's death (and does he really look like Korean Gandhi?) - she thinks he's going to be OK with just following her and doing whatever she wants? WTF! Best case scenario he won't come after her, worst case scenario is what happened happens and he either offs Sejong or gets killed himself.

I agree that she didn't realize the depth of either his anger towards Sejong or his damage until that scene in beginning of 14 when she was on the balcony, but surely her expectation of him dancing to her tune is naive at best. She wasn't willing to go with him but she thinks he should be willing to go with her? I dislike unbalanced relationships. I find her view sort of emotionally presumptuous - it's like she wants to be doing what she thinks her goal is but she doesn't want to accept that same freedom of volition in him. Life is choices and that choice may cost her CY - no, she thinks it's feasible to have your cake and eat it too.

I cut her slack because she's a mess but I confess the goodwill I had towards her in the past episodes is significantly diminished. I don't think it's awful she puts her mission above her love life. I do think it's awful that while she's not willing to give up her goals for him, she expects him to give up his for her (and more than that - join hands with Sejong) and she seems not to entertain any doubts about that happening.

ETA: You wrote she would follow him without looking back if she were free to do so. That is my problem. She is as free to follow as he is. She chooses to do the mission. And yet she expects differently from him. His mission is as important to him as hers to her and both as as put-downable. But she expects different treatment than what she's willing to grant.

[quaggy]

That is my problem. She is as free to follow as he is. She chooses to do the mission. And yet she expects differently from him. His mission is as important to him as hers to her and both as as put-downable.

Oh man. I had a whole answer ready and then I realized it was based on a conversations in episodes that you haven't seen yet! But I don't think it's as spoilery to say that even though Chae Yoon and So Yi's respective missions served the same purpose, they are not the same thing.

Chae Yoon's mission to kill the king is an unhealthy obsession. Better than turning to drugs or alcohol, but still an unhealthy fixation. It's not even about the King's death or what comes after. Like most revenge killings, it was just something to keep him going in a meaningless world. But So Yi's mission is a calling... a profession if you will. She might have became a workaholic to survive, but that does not negate her commitment to her work. It's her sense of responsibility that ultimately drives her back. Not her own interest. He puts his mission aside, there's a good chance that nothing has changed for anyone else. But people are depending on So Yi. So no, she's not as free to go as he is, even if she does have the King's blessing.

When it comes right down to it, Chae Yoon's mission was actually one of personal self-destruction. If say that his mission was to be best swordsman in Korea or to bring every murderer to justice or to bring down Hidden Root... and that he was willing to give that up to go with her, then yes, she would be just as hypocritical as you say. But So Yi instead is dealing with the very modern dilemma of career versus family. And I can't really blame her for thinking that she could have both. Not when she knew the project was going to end very soon and she would be free to go with him with a clear conscience.

What she misjudged was how much Chae Yoon was going to lose his fighting spirit. They should have sat down and tried to talk as calmly about it as possible before they separated. (Though after the 48 hours they both had, I can see why that wasn't happening.) I think they had, she would have made different choices. I think she would still have gone back... but not without his promise to wait for her.

[doozy05.livejournal.com]

I'm actually with So Yi on this one and was gonna draft up a response but couldn't seem to express it adequately. And your explanation covers the major points and is well said!
Also I agree that future episodes does shed more light on why the alphabet is so important to So Yi and vice versa.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your response, it clarified a lot of things!

1. I agree that So Yi's goal is a lot nobler and saner than CY's goal. I was referring to the goal's importance to their inner selves.

2. My problem was only a little with her going back to her work, it was much more with her blithe expectation that CY will follow her and they will all work well together. If she was all (as you put it) 'I'll go back to work and when it's done, I'll find you', I'd have much less problem with her. But then I realized that she doesn't know him very well at all - they had 4-5 interactions as adults total. Meaningful, important interactions, but still not enough to know what he's really like (unlike us, the audience). And once I thought about that and once you pointed it out, I got more OK with it (though emotional kick still remains).

[yunhalove.livejournal.com]

Wow, that MV just reminded me of all the awesome things I had forgotten about that drama. :Q_________ Especially Park Kyu. UNF.

What with it being on Netflix instant and all I think I'm due for a rewatch too.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I need to rewatch asap!

[clairiere.livejournal.com]

The confrontation between Sejong and Chae Yoon in ep 14 is pretty much why drama exists

And the perfect parallel to their fateful encounter in ep. 2. They're also some of the longest uninterrupted exchanges I've seen on tv (not just in k-dramas), but whether it's Sejong vs Taejong (eps. 2-3) or Sejong vs Chae-Yoon (ep. 8, ep. 14), they're absolutely riveting. Takes an enormous amount of skill and trust for everyone involved (the actors, the writers, the directors), but I also love that they have faith in the viewers to hang in there.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I really hope this drama reaps heaps of awards.

[hamster428.livejournal.com]

I've just rewatched Tamra some weeks ago. And it was even more awesome the 2nd time around because plot aside, I suddenly now noticed it has some pretty amazing cinematography and soundtrack. And the initial silly didn't seem so bad anymore since the rest was obviously done with such care and respect.
Haven't watched Trees so I dunno what to say about it lol

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, the first ep is disposable, imo, but after that it gets amazing.