a rant on Myung Wol rants :)

[dangermousie]

I have been seeing massive freak outs about the lovemaking scene in ep 13 and I just do not get it!!! I mean, what we have is Kang Woo, drunk and desperate, believing (correctly, I might add) that Myung Wol had nefarious motives in approaching him and getting him to fall for her, telling her that if she loves him, she should prove it by sleeping with him. And she does.

That's it. Is it dysfunctional and screwed up as all get-out? Heck yeah. That's why I love this drama. Is it in any way rape or some sort of sexual assault or even an evil act???? You've gotta be kidding me! He doesn't lay a finger on her (just as well - if he tried to even touch her without her blessing, it is pretty clear he would be in a coma, seeing she is a trained North Korean commando and he is an actor who I severely doubt has any fighting skills whatsoever). She says yes because she loves him, not because she is feeling threatened or coerced. If she said no, I am sure that would have been the end of it (might have been better for them both in the long run actually because instead of giving up his quest for truth, he maybe would have had an honest if uncomfortable conversation with her once he sobered up in the morning - as it is, he still doesn't know she is a NK agent and is now willfully blind to finding out anything actually - blind trust is good in lovers but not when it leads you to Kim Jong Il land!)

And let's face it, while KW picked a screwed-up and ultimately futile way to demand a proof of her love (she gives herself to him because she loves him but if she was just an agent carrying out her mission at all costs, she would sleep with him anyway even if she liked him as much as a tree. KW is bright enough to realize that a user would sleep with him anyway to keep using, it's just he is so in love and drunk and overcome and desperate to believe she loves her, he is willing to put that knowledge in the back of his mind) but he has a right to demand SOME proof after what he has discovered. And when people talk about rights and wrongs, they seem to igonore that one of the couple was a NK agent who infiltrated the country under a false identity for the express purpose of initially killing the other and then, after a change in plans, with a plan to seduce the other to make them defect. Hint: that person wasn't Kang Woo. In any balance of rights and wrongs between them, MWprettyt much holds the upper hand.

Ultimately, they are both screwed-up and their overall situation is equally messed-up - anything arising out of that would be dysfunctional of course. But what happened between them at night was fully consensual and a result of their loving each other. I just do not get the fits people have over it. I loved that it wasn't a simple 'we love each other so let's do it' but at it arose out of their issues and addressed their circumstances and that it was dysfunctional, angsty and hot. But mmv, I suppose.

Overall, I just realized that MWtS has pretty much been designed to meet all my narrative kinks, even ones I did not know I had. It is pretty much a drama made just for me. That is why I cannot help but adore it so. Mmmmmm.

In other news, I got my hands on Laura Kinsale's The Shadow and the Star. I mean, the hero is an English virgin ninja. This is so wtf, I have to read it.

Comments

[cleobulle.livejournal.com]

Ah, The Shadow and The Star.....It's one of Kinsale's most loved books but it's the one I hate the most. I can't stand heroes who spend more than half the book in love (or thinking they're in love) with another woman than the heroine. (It's the same with Kdramas actually). I love Kinsale's writing but she's a hit or miss for me. The prose is always gorgeous but the stories she tells or the characters she creates don't always appeal to me.

I think you might like For My Lady's Heart. It has a hero to die for paired up with a tough "I learned to survie at Court the hard way" heroine.

*Stays away from the Myung Wol stuff in the post* I can't get over the real life stuff that happened and haven't watched the recent episodes. I need to wait until the drama is over before I can get into it again. The good thing about this is that I'll be able to binge!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

You are in for a treat when you restart MW - it's so good and shippy! And their chemistry doesn't seem to be affected in the least by all the bts stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

I know right, they are acting as if MG was raped or forced.... come on.

First, people saying Eric had to stop and didn't... wth, he just wanted to confirm if she loved him or not, he wasn't necessary wanting her to sleep with him, he just wanted to see her reaction, also, after he said that he looked to her waiting a reply, and she starts to take off her clothes, he - drunk - with the woman he loves in his bed, giving in to him, do you think a men wouldn't go for it? And you can see he kissed her very gently - as if he was testing if he could really go for it, and when he saw the green light he went for it. He didn't in any time forced himself upon her, he didn't force a kiss, he didn't take off her clothes and all. Also people need to stop thinking people just do sex when they are ''happy'' or everything is love... people do sex to make up after a fight, to relieve their stress and many others things...

As for Ryu, he is stupid or what? He did on purpose, why enter KW's house to tell her something he could tell after? Or why not call her? No, he had to enter KS's room to say this... -_-



As for Ryu, he is stupid or what? He did on purpose, why enter KW's house to tell her something he could tell after? Or why not call her? No, he had to enter KS's room to say this... -_-

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I agree with every word. Honestly, if she didn't want to sleep with him right then, she could have said no and that would have been the end of it. And yes, they don't have some sort of idealized love, but it's all born out of love anyway - love plus make-up sex :P

[puion.livejournal.com]

The scene didn't bother me at all personally, but I knew it would lead to some unnecessary heated discussions/arguments. *rolleyes*

I was just saddened by it...because I thought consummating of their relationship should be on a romantic note. (Besides, it was MW's first time...so it was a very personal & precious, and it should be a happy event.) Instead, it was clouded by misunderstanding, confusion, and sadness.

I like to believe at that moment, MW made the decision as a woman, and NOT as a North Korean spy. The mission didn't once cross her mind (at least that's what I hope)...and she was just a woman in love with a man who was clearly distressed and hurt, who desperately needed her, and needed to know that she loved him like he loved her.

MW loves KW (maybe more than she herself realized), and she was also desperate in her own ways, to show KW her love for him. This was the first time she truly loved a man...and instinctively (?), she felt like this was the right way, or perhaps the only way?

I felt so bad for MW...because once KW finds out about the truth, he would automatically assume she did this for the mission. But imho, I really think she did not...

This pivotal moment was realistically depicted...it was dysfunctional like you said, but strangely, it felt "right".

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I found it pretty realistic, and clearly it was an expression of love, even if underlaid with emo (I bet it made it even more intense though and thus better. /mind in gutter).

Oh, it's pretty clear to me she wasn't thinking of her mission at all, just of showing her very real love. Of course, KW isn't going to buy it when the truth comes out (understandably so) and mmmm....angst.

[puion.livejournal.com]

Forgot to mention...this scene reminds me of Kang Suk asking Dan Ah to spend a night with him...

In some ways, I wish MW responded the same way as DA...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

But I think the situations were very different - DA and KS weren't acknowledged lovers at the time - they haven't even admitted to each other they are in love. Plus, DA has nothing to prove - any comfort KS needs is not because of her wrong actions.

[sisterjune.livejournal.com]

Shadow and the Star. I didnt like that one at all, one hero pining for another woman is a big no for me and it had a massive case of orientalism and i found it offensive, three it was boring and the hero didnt appeal to me so yeah just wasnt one that clicked for me and i didnt finish reading it. As far as kinsales go I didnt like For my Lady's heart either, not cause it was bad but because the prose was just so heavy and the dialogue was in this weird archaic dialect. it just didnt do it for me. I love the sequel shadowheart though. I also liked midsummer moon and seize the fire. (well i havent finished seize the fire but i like what i did read)

I think the unfortunate thing the myung wol scene is it probably in real world terms has ugly connotations just cause its not uncommon for a guy to guilt/coerce/harass a girl into giving it up on the grounds of "proving" her love. unlike myung wol the average girl isnt a scheming spy with combat skills. so while i dont think myung wol herself was coerced or afraid in any way (lets be real people she can kick his ass without breaking a sweat) i get why people are bothered by the scene.

I've picked up playful kiss btw, it was on netflix so i tried it out thinking it would be horrible but its pretty cute so far. i'll probably keep up with it until i get bored. i mean i dont know if i can stand 16 hours of bitch face hero and air headed heroine but we shall see.

[puion.livejournal.com]

WHAT? Netflix has Kdramas?! Really?

[sisterjune.livejournal.com]

yep sure does. not a particularly wide selection atm but they have like lie to me and midas and boys over flowers and other ones that i cant remember. its hard to search for them generally but if you search one drama title a bunch of others tend to come up.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

But the thing is, I always view scenarios according to circs - I mean, A killing B is always a killing but it can be murder for hire (vvv bad) or defending a little kid (good). Just because someone could somehow get pressured doesn't mean this was the case here (re: scenario you mention - I know it happens but I don't get it at all; honestly, wtf - I had plenty of bfs who wanted more than I was willing to give, being from a concervative background, and I never had the slightest hesitation telling them no way. I don't understand why you'd give in (unless there is a threat of some sort, obviously)).

[sisterjune.livejournal.com]

There is alot of reasons a person might give in that situation. if a woman feels cornered or scared even if the guy isnt openly threatening her she may still fear that he will resort to force. because honestly its not that big a jump to make, if you are saying no repeatedly and the person is ignoring you then how much farther a step is then using force? its obvious either way the guy doesnt care about you, he just wants what he wants. this is a little different case in myung wol since she probably wasnt afraid of force, but she did have to keep her cover and if she told him no, he'd have probably began to doubt her so much more if not even realize she is fooling him in which case she'd be on death's door since the failure of the mission means death. even if you wanna argue its not a rape scene, you cant argue that its romantic cause it really isnt. and that i think is largely the problem. you want the first sex scene the main couple has to be out of love and wanting. which isnt what happened here. :( I mean I stopped watching the drama after the slap (partly cause of the slap and it not being dealt with properly and partly cause i was starting to lose interest) so I suspect this scene would have further ruined things for me.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I found it romantic and clearly so did a bunch of my flisties. Dysfunctional doesn't mean unromantic.

Also, if the only 'threat' of her saying no was ontinuing his investigation and thus finding out the truth about the fact that she is someone sent to manipulate him to move to the worst country on earth and she's been lying since day 1 but sexing him would convince him and make him desperate to believe her, I hardly find it a threat or even something that I can blame him for. That's like saying seducing a guy to reveal govt secrets is coercion on the guy's part because she had to do it or she'd not get the secrets. I mean, he's not exactly being a saint, but she is the one in the wrong here.

Of course, that's not the reason she had sex with him (she didn't know he overheard), she did it because she loved him and he was in pain. I don't think it's a bad reason to sex someone, tbh.

[lightsjustright.livejournal.com]

even if you wanna argue its not a rape scene, you cant argue that its romantic cause it really isnt.

Yeah, I kinda agree. I mean, I haven't watched the drama, and I doubt I will now, but even from recaps... she's crying and looks so uncomfortable and what he says sounds so emotionally manipulative. :/ Like I get how some people could respond to it on a kink level, maybe, but I think it's still pretty shady if you look into it past a superficial level.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I haven't read recaps (I never do) but they do all involve the viewer's spin. When I watched the ep, I got a man upset because he knows the woman he loves betrayed him and a woman upset that the man she loves all of a sudden doubts her. They are both trainwrecks who sort of heal each other through making love. Not necessarily healthy, but romantic.

She was crying at one point but not from "OMG, this person I could kill with my nail is threatening me" but because she was upset he was upset and later because everything was so intense in general. Crying not = misery. I had hysterics at my wedding when I was saying my wows to Mr. Mousie and I assure you it wasn't out of misery. I was just so emotionally overwrought.

I am not being superficial and going "OMG they are hot, so this must be good". There are plenty of drama makeout scenes I find problematic (FTLY, EoE, QSS etc) but this is not one of them.

ETA: I think there is a difference between sweet and romantic. This wasn't sweet but imo it was very romantic. But then most kdrama romcoms where the OTPs are actually sweet leave me bored to tears - I like a little darkness and complexity, please, and to have them be innocent children hopping through a meadow when she's a NK spy sent to seduce him so as to brainwash him would be sort of insane.

[lightsjustright.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm aware that bias is inevitable in writing, but the bare facts wouldn't change - a wasted guy pushes a girl onto a bed and then demands that she should prove her love by having sex with him. It's in the dialogue and I don't think watching his aggressive delivery would change my aversion to it. But anyway, I checked it out on yt just now and I still feel the same, lol. If the drama justifies and romanticises it because she gave in, that's even more sketchy for me because it plays into that problematic culture of excusing gross behaviour because, well, she wanted it, anyway.

Hm, I don't know, in that position I think it would be the most obvs link that it would be his actions that were making her cry, but regardless, she did look obviously uncomfortable and her initial dialogue ("why are you doing this to me?") suggests she isn't into it. I also think it's irrelevant that she could kill him with her nail, too, because the onus of getting a pushy jerk to back off when she's already expressed her dislike of his attention shouldn't be on the girl.

but because she was upset he was upset

That's what I meant by emotionally manipulative, lol.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the last part because I don't think it was very complex. :p

[sisterjune.livejournal.com]

Yep this is exactly how I feel. you pretty much said what I was going to say. I just cant see the scene as anything but super skeevy.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU. THIS IS BEAUTIFUL. Especially this part.

I also think it's irrelevant that she could kill him with her nail, too, because the onus of getting a pushy jerk to back off when she's already expressed her dislike of his attention shouldn't be on the girl.

Thank you. 'It's fault because she didn't fight him off!' Not, uh, his fault because he made the conscious thinking decision to hurt her and manipulate her and operated under the conscious thinking state of utterly not caring that she's crying and doesn't want it.

[lightsjustright.livejournal.com]

Haha, unsurprisingly I also very much agree with your comments!

And dangermousie, I hope you don't take this as a personal atack! I just disagree with what you've written pretty fundamentally and I consider your lj a safe environment that would be receptive to dissenting opinions. :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, you are not calling me names or anything so obviously I do not see it as an attack.

I am not really continuing with the debate though as it's pretty pointless - clearly neither of us is going to convert the other. Let us just agree to continue to disagee - I will continue to like it and adore the otp and you will continue to find it massively problematic.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

Basically. It's not romantic because if you care about someone at all you don't emotionally blackmail them into having sex with you when they don't want to. Especially when they're crying and asking you 'why are you doing this to me?' I'm not sure how you can get more explicitly abusive without stone-cold hitting her.

[princesagr.livejournal.com]

Ι m with you on that matter. I don't understand why some people are going too far to even mention rape.He didn't force, he didn't even touch her before SHE did unbutton her shirt.
She could have left, or push him away , like she did in the kiss-CR-in-closet scene, but she didn't.

So if this is rape, then when she tried to seduce him (nosebleed scene) what was that??

I really liked this twist, and didn't bother me AT ALL. Of course I d love their first time to be under other circumstances, but this was NOT something to make me hate or dislike KW

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Rape? Good Lord! Even if somehow KW was posessed by an alien from Mars and decided to do some raping, is there any doub't that MW could put a stop to anything in about a second flat without breaking a sweat while breaking every bone in his body? Remember when he totaled him after he kissed her in ep 2?

Not that she needed those skills because yes, he didn't even kiss her until she unbuttoned her shirt. While lying in his bed. At that point, he got every indication of consent anyone can have unless she started waving a plackard with 'take me now' written in big letters. And even then, it's not like he started mauling her caveman style - that was a very gentle and even questioning kiss. And only after he saw that she kissed him back, did they go full steam into fadeout.

I kind of liked that their first time had that added intensity (make-up sex is the best :P) but yeah, I wish for their sake, even if not my own, that it was just pure giddiness, without the issues.

[princesagr.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I even read about consentual rape (dunno if i m spelling it right)!!!! (please Eric, rape me like that! GENTLY while I am unbuttoning my shirt for you :P)

She did nothing to prevent this, in fact, she started ;p. She unbuttoned the shirt, she respond to his kiss, and after the whole thingy she was even giggling :) For me, as ''wrong'' as is KW for asking ''prove of love'' that much and even more is MW.

Sheez, he/she didn't take the opportunity for hot make up sex. They should argue a bit more, and kissed with passion (*que sera sera rain kiss*)

[spunspider.livejournal.com]

sorry to butt in but there's no such thing as consensual rape lol what the hell. dysfunctional sex but consensual nonetheless. smh.

[princesagr.livejournal.com]

Maybe my english is not very good
*goes to check how exactly she read that rape something*

Yeah, i read it correct.

Consensual. Lol.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Consensual rape? LOL, you can't have that by definition.

Seriously, it was totally consensual and an expression of love.

[spunspider.livejournal.com]

And when people talk about rights and wrongs, they seem to igonore that one of the couple was a NK agent who infiltrated the country under a false identity for the express purpose of initially killing the other and then, after a change in plans, with a plan to seduce the other to make them defect. Hint: that person wasn't Kang Woo.

and this just invalidates it all. if she hadn't 'ruined it' by falling in love with him, she would have carried out her mission and seduced and married the guy to make him defect, lmfao. i can see why people get upset, it can be triggering for people and often the line isn't very clear, but. honestly, he would never have forced her, and they were both screwed up but it was consensual and they're in love, so.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Pretty much. It wasn't vanilla but it was consensual.

Also, I am wondering what is going in MW's head regarding her mission. Sure, she fell in love with him for real, but we haven't gotten any sense she plans to ditch her mission (or that she decided NK sucks). So does she still plan to carry it out and is deluded enough to think that they can live happily forever in NK? I bet she is trying not to think about it at all, but these eps are making clear her happiness in love and her mission are not compatible (i.e. she has to steal a book from her lover, and that's small potatoes compared to her overall goal).

I honestly think she isn't going to change ideologically or anything (for one, this is a romance, not an expose), it's just she is going to realize when push comes to shove that she loves KW more than her duty and he wants to stay in SK and letting him stay would be a way to prove her love to him.

[spunspider.livejournal.com]

i haven't actually seen the eps yet lol but yeah i have no idea. and before it started in on the heavier angst i was happy to let it slide because that kooky atmosphere was doing more of the wink wink nudge nudge thing, it wasn't very stakes-y. but now??? i think they could go either way. i just really need it not to end in deaths. ;| it probably won't because it doesn't seem like that type of show, but idk what they're thinking!!! writer changes/additions and all.

[othervalentine.livejournal.com]

Seriously? Rape. It didn't cross my mind even for a second. But some people say it is a rape? I don't know what to say about this. She made the decision, not Kang Woo. He gave her a choice. She didn't say no. She willingly unbuttoned her shirt. He kissed her, she responded. Is there more to that? Am I blind? And if he wanted to rape her, wouldn't he do it earlier like when they were in bed in ep12? I think he wanted to be with her then, but she wasn't ready and he saw it and he didn't do anything. Why would it be different now?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Seriously, rape = absence of consent. She didn't just consent, she took the initiative. Sometimes fandom amazes me (remember the freakout about the 'forced' hug in Secret Garden. A hug!!!)

Yes, I think he totally wanted to go for it in ep 12 but she was too nervous so nothing happened. Sure, he asked her for sex as a way to show she loved him (and let's face it, at that point the man needed some sort of a proof). That may be dysfunctional, but it's not rape.

[othervalentine.livejournal.com]

Fandom amazes me too. I remember the "forced" hug in SG. And I still can't believe that is possible for someone to think that a hug can be an act of violence. And Gil Ra Im loved Kim Joo Won too.

Yes, it was dysfunctional, but in his head this was the only proof of her love. And he desperately wanted to believe her too.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Not to mention she could murder him with one hand behind her back. Ah, fandom!

[(Anonymous)]

Consensual rape? Is that something like jumbo shrimp? Because I've never heard of such a thing. Me? I actually loved episode 13. All that manpain and angst. What's not to love? :) Bring it on show

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

LOLOL yes. Rape is defined as sex with absence of consent. Having a consensual rape is as nonsensical as a tall dwarf. One, by definition, excludes the other.

I know! And I bet there is more yummy angst to comr!

[iheartkleenex.livejournal.com]

Right? Right? Everyone is freaking out over the love scene in MW and how horrible he was and how could he do that and blah blah blah.

I mean, this is Korea we are talking about here. The country where to kiss in drama means to give your soul to the other person. So, sleeping with someone to prove that you love them? It makes perfect sense. Plus, isn't that the 'old-fashion/romantic' definition of making love? Proving that you love someone. Isn't that where the name came from? Why there is a difference between making love and having sex? I'm sorry but the entire thing angers me so much. It makes me think back to East of Eden when the guy raped the girl and everyone was like 'oh, that poor boy, that poor tortured soul, how dare she love the other guy over him (the guy who raped her)?' These kind of things make me so angry!!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I fail to see the horribleness. Honestly. Fandom is insane. They were denying EoE was rape (where it was brutal and horrible and she tried to kill herself) and they are saying a loving and consensual encounter is rape? Ugh. Sure, he's a headcase (in large part because of her) but he is not a sexual offender. Ugh.

[shiegra.livejournal.com]

Arguing that a woman was ostensibly physically strong enough to fight it off and that a lack of physical struggle negates the possibility of rape is a dangerous and misogynistic idea that actively hurts real women in the real world. Fighting back is not possible in every situation and physical power is not the only factor in making a woman feel fighting back is not possible or an option she wants to take. Compromising or ignoring someone's consent without violence or violent retaliation is just as hurtful as physically pinning someone down. If a woman does not want to have sex, has the ability to kill someone and does not, that is equally as valid a refusal as when she does not want to have sex, lacks the ability and cannot.

No. That is not lovemaking, and it is not consent. Your attempt to characterize rape only as a violent act, as an act in which physical force must be present, is toxic, actively misogynistic and deeply popular in the modern justice system in an attempt to discredit, bully and shame rape victims who were intimidated, threatened or otherwise forced into situations where they would not have consented; to classify that as a less hurtful and violent form of coercion than physical force is merely another attempt to de-emphasize and undermine a woman's right to her own body and the significance of the fact that yes, a woman should want to sleep with who she sleeps with, yes, a woman should feel comfortable with her decision to have sex, and no, you should not be able to overturn a rape case where the rapist already confessed because the victim did not bounce hard enough when she hit the bed.

If she would not have said yes, and someone's deliberate and calculated emotional manipulation and circumstances, such as blowing her cover if she does not allow him to have sex with her, force her to have sex with him? That is not consent. That is rape, essentially by emotional blackmail. Indisputably. When somebody holds a gun under a woman's chin and instructs her to say yes and ask them for it and she obeys, guess what, also not consent! Fandom likes to fudge the line into dubious consent through convenient narrative omniscience and god knows I've bought into it before as something creepy but compelling but those are the stone-cold facts.

Not to mention the blindingly obvious: any man telling a woman to prove she loves him by sleeping with him is also actively misogynistic, ignoring her lack of consent and blatantly attempting to force her into a sexual situation she doesn't want. Because a) haha, I'd love to see the day a woman shoved a man who wasn't interested in sex with her down on the bed and told him if he loved her he'd fuck her and fandom flocked to support her but of course they never will because the poisonous and erroneous message that women somehow owe physicality to men who desire them does not, in fact, apply in a reverse situation) - and if you say you would you are lying, by the way, because you have repeatedly castigated female characters for pressuring emotional or physical intimacy out of hesitant male characters - and b) if she was consenting he wouldn't need to bully her into it.

NO. NO MAN HAS THE ~RIGHT~ TO DEMAND A WOMAN GIVE HIM SEXUAL ACCESS. EVER. NOT. EVER. NO. You are really fond of this argument, I've noticed - as well as the argument that a man deciding a woman has wronged him justifies him raping or fascilitating her rape. And saying 'but she's a spy blah blah' NO, stop trying to excuse rape, it is not excusable, not ever, stop trying. And it is incredibly, blatantly, overpoweringly misogynistic for you to suggest that anything justifies a woman being forced to allow a man sexual access to her.

This is called rape apologism and you are one of a thousand people who support it and let rapists walk free on strength of the argument that a thousand insignificant factors outweigh whether or not a woman wanted to have sex, the argument that some strangers ~standards~ of how violent an act must be before a woman's choices, consent and free will matter at all.

If you're going to ship it, just ship it. You cannot plausibly sugar-coat it, and the effort is as thin as fandom's proudly touted and widely supported misogyny ever is.

[village.livejournal.com]

I agree that the reaction towards this scene has been over the top. There's a lot of things you can say about it but to even remotely label this as rape is taking things too far.

To me, the situation that enfolded was essentially an intoxicated Kang Woo bursting at the seams with turmoil, losing some control. A guilt ridden, hurt Myung Wol, not equipped to deal with the pull between her loyalties and her heart, hoping that sex would "fix" things.

Dysfunctional? Yes. An error in judgement? Yup. Bad choice? KW seemed to think so after the fact. But please don't say she was forced or coerced. Whether people question their motives or disagree with how things went down, at the end of the day, Myung Wol actively made a choice. Doesn't MYUNG WOL get to decide what she wants to do with her own body?! My God.

People can disagree with the scene all they want but they need to stop calling it rape. It's really offensive.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I agree with every word you put. It is very dysfunctional. But rape??? Rape is sex without consent. And no, saying yes because you feel bad for the guy doesn't count as lack of consent. WTF is wrong with people? I get the sense fandom loves it's stuff black and white and this certainly wasn't a cookie-cutter sweet romantic sex moment and they don't know what to do with it.

[akosikae.livejournal.com]

The Shadow and the Star is another one of my Laura Kinsale favorites.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It was fun though I liked Flowers from the Storm better.