Watching ep 5 of Cinderella Unni - Team Hyo Sun!

[dangermousie]

1. I am in the minority of one probably but I think Eun Jo is a giant bitch. The way she treats Hyo Sun, no wonder Hyo Sun is brittle with her. I would have throttled Eun Jo in her sleep years ago. She is a fascinating character and I understand why she is the way she is but I do not like her nor would I want to be around her in real life. Yeah, yeah, you had a tough upbringing, it's a reason but not an excuse for not behaving like a human being. Hyo Sun really does bring out the worst in her. I love Eun Jo as a character, just not as a person. Her longing for/anger with/vulnerability with Ki Hoon are the only times I feel for her - the only time she becomes someone I care for. Maybe because that's the only time her lashing out is either not there or deserved.

2. Stepdad, DIAF. I don't care what she has done - who the hell keeps on hitting their completely grown-up child? And curfew for a 24 yr old?

3. Ki Hoon. Oh, his eyes!

Comments

[walkwithheroes.livejournal.com]

Interesting! These episodes, as I've stated in my own journal, made me dislike HS even more. I found her annoying at first, but she's letting her jealously twist her into someone with a victim complex. At least that's the way I see it. She's 23/24 and does nothing but spend her father's money while staying out for days at a time. HS has no goals. Yes, I can feel badly for it, but she shares blame in all her problems. And yet, she acts as if the world ignores her. While she acts like a spoiled child.

How far are you in the episode? Have you seen the HS/EJ hospital scene in episode six?


About EJ, I actually identify with her. She may be cold toward HS, but a lot of it has to do with HS annoying her. EJ is all business, but she doesn't want to have to worry and see about anyone else. Selfish? Maybe. But, at least she's upfront.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Haven't gotten to hospital scene but am spoiled about it.

EJ is just a person I would hate to have around, hate to have in the family, hate to have as a coworker. I can't help but let that color my feelings towards her. She has a good job, good education, is healthy, and has at least one caring and stable family member (stepdad), yet she keeps going around as if she is in a gulag, with the demeanor of someone whose life is joyless, meaningless and full of paaaaaaaain and ennui. It's as if she is auditioning to be a goth.

HS is no saint - she is shallow and immature - but at least if you are nice to her, she'll be nice to you. I would much rather be around her. I also don't think it's a crime to be aimless at 24 or to even have no grand ambition in life. What's EJ's ambition? To repay her debt and then run away and have no emotional contact with anyone ever? That's hardly great.

Anything HS does to EJ, in past present and future - EJ has earned and provoked by being her own "I hate the world, everyone in it, and you most of all" self.

[walkwithheroes.livejournal.com]

For EJ: I honestly think she's just tired and hates her life because she's spent the last eight years trying to make sure her mother doesn't screw up. EJ is keeping a lot of secrets, I think. Honestly, the mom has screwed EJ up big time and I doubt that anything can make her better. I honestly don't see EJ being too joyless right now. She's just all business. She wants to be as far from her mother as she can, too. (We are so disagreeing on this character, but I'm liking your thoughts)


RE HS: Yes, but I think of HS as that "fake" nice. She just pushes my buttons.

. I also don't think it's a crime to be aimless at 24 or to even have no grand ambition in life.

True. But, HS has nothing, that makes me annoyed with her. Her father gave her so much, and I just feel like she threw it all away to party.


EJ has earned and provoked by being her own "I hate the world, everyone in it, and you most of all" self.

I'm going to disagree with you here. These episodes show little hints that EJ cares for HS - in her own aloof and slightly cold manner - she pushes HS to work on her ballet and whatnot. EJ is more of a quiet woman now. And, no one deserves to be treated as badly as I get the feeling HS is going to treat her down the road.

We shall agree to disagree about these two.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, if HS treats EJ really badly in the future, I reserve the right to change my opinion but she hasn't done anything nasty yet (wishing someone was dead - though I am not sure she genuinely meant it - is not a nasty thing to do - it does not result in anything unless HS has magic powers).

[uisceros.livejournal.com]

I am in the minority of one probably but I think Eun Jo is a giant bitch.

I've only seen a few episodes so far, but I feel the same way, which is one of the major reasons I'm having difficulties getting into the series. I mean, yeah, I understand why she's like that, but it's too much. Like, seriously, cry me a river girl, you're not the only one who's had a bad childhood.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I love the drama because I find her fascinating (the same way I loved Que Sera Sera - the leading male character was awful but fascinating and complex) but as a character - my God!

I can't help but keep thinking that I wouldn't want to be around someone like her in real life for any money. Talk about coworker/family member from hell (No wonder she has no friends).

cry me a river girl, you're not the only one who's had a bad childhood.

Exactly. By kdrama standards, her childhood was routine :P Joking aside, she's had 8 years to get over her childhood - she has a stable and good job, great education, good health, and a stable family situation including a great father figure - yet she still walks around as if she is a plague victim in a gulag. There comes a time in life when you stop getting a pass because your childhood was so horrid. I understand that some people never move on and allow it to embitter them permanently - it's not unrealistic EJ is this way, but it doesn't make her likeable.

[uisceros.livejournal.com]

I do think she's interesting as well, but at the same time she just irritates me so much it's hard for me to concentrate on her good aspects. I wouldn't want to be around anyone like her in RL either. People who act the way she's acting make me want to scream. Hyo Sun has her issues, but at least I wouldn't want to strangle her if I knew her in RL. Even if she is self absorbed, at least she's pleasant.

There comes a time in life when you stop getting a pass because your childhood was so horrid

This, SO MUCH.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

This, SO MUCH.

This and Byaukuyaku icon combo = win

[biases.livejournal.com]

I'm completely the other way with CS - I understand EJ's curtness and unwillingness to open up, whereas HS's flightiness and 'what about meeeeee' complex really grate on me. I'm really enjoying everyone's different opinions, though - it makes the drama-watching experience all the more interesting. :)

I'm also interested as to whether your feelings will change after you've watched all of ep 6 with subs. *intrigued*

My take on the HS situation is this - okay, her life was 'ruined' by EJ's arrival - or, at the very least, changed completely. On the surface, she was nothing but polite, considerate, open - she gave up her room, her home and her family to welcome EJ only to have her good deeds thrown back in her face. I think you can also look at that from EJ's perspective - she had to uproot herself (again) and was shoved into a family she didn't fit into (much like a square peg into a round hole). I get the same discomfort at social situations where I consider myself an outcast, so I don't read EJ's unwillingness to let Daesung and HS close as entirely a selfish thing - EJ knows her mother better than anyone else in the world, and she knows that her mother rarely does things for the right reason (more on that at the end of ep 6).

What I like most about the EJ of eight years later is her exacting work ethic. I find it hilarious that she's a scientist, something I assume she picked precisely so she didn't have to interact with people (which is a good thing - imagine her in customer service!) and if there's a job to be done, she'll just get in and do it. She has no patience for fools and that is why she's so short with HS - HS has done nothing and continues to choose to do nothing - that's my problem with HS. HS has had EXACTLY the same opportunities as EJ, it's not as if EJ has taken away any of HS's options, but HS has chosen to pursue ballet over any form of education (I assume) and in doing so, slacks off from practice, drinks and plays around with boys and still has the gall to be offended when she a) doesn't pass auditions, b) is called before her father to account for her actions and c) is spoken to harshly by EJ, who just tells her the truth.

There are definitely moments when I undestand the pressure on HS, and I think we've all had that feeling of "no matter how hard I try, I won't be able to match that person" but bumming around, spending her father's money and splashing some rice in some water is not actually trying, and that's what pisses me off about HS.

Sorry if this seems ranty, I'm just trying to convey my feelings on the HS/EJ debate and while I agree with you that EJ is compelling as a character but maybe not so much as a BFF in real life, I wouldn't want to know HS either. In fact, I already do, and I get tired in my conversations with my HS friends, because somehow it always comes back to them, them, them. :(

[mishane.livejournal.com]

My take on the HS situation is this - okay, her life was 'ruined' by EJ's arrival - or, at the very least, changed completely.

I don't think it was really ruined though. I think HS was the type of girl who would have loved to have a sister and probably wanted a sister to play with/braid hair/talk together with. Which is why it killed me to see every effort of hers being thrown away by EJ.

It's weird. I grew up a HS but became a EJ (long story). I was an only child like HS and pretty happy go lucky like her also. And I wanted a sister, bad. Which is why I get all her attempts to bring EJ into her life (talking to her at school, sharing rooms, inviting her out) and everytime EJ basically spat in her face. I give HS props for being able to be as nice and sweet to EJ for so long. And I know there are a few people who say that her niceness was fake in the first few episodes but I think that it was hones.

Don't get me wrong. I'm still a huge EJ fan (like I said, my personality is currently much more EJ-like than HS-like) but I'll definitely admit that she was a major bitch to HS in the early episodes and, as much as I hate to say it, probably deserves a lot of the backlash she's getting.

I haven't seen 5 & 6 yet so I can't comment too much on it, but from the spoilers I've read, their sister/sister relationship is just as complex as ever and I'm very excited to watch it.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Watched all of ep 6 with subs, nope, still team EJ.

I don't loathe EJ or anything but I don't particularly like her either - wouldn't want to be around her unless someone paid me a lot.

It doesn't seem ranty at all!

EJ and I have basically antithetical personalities (I am a hyper, flighty extravert) so I think this may play into my feelings.

[homocoucho.livejournal.com]

I'm the complete opposite. With each episode, I'm finding it harder to deal with HS. It's just that I'm rather disturbed by her consuming desire to be the center of everyone's attention.

At the same time though, I'm amused how the characters can be polarizing without becoming static/flat. For me, that's a mark of well-developed characters.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I can understand her desire for attention (she doesn't really get any) but I can't say I adore her - with the exception of JW I do not find any characters in this good people. Interesting, yes. Good and likeable, no.

[prdarkstar.livejournal.com]

I find myself loving both just in very different ways. I guess because they are such polar opposites of one another. But IF I had to choose which one I like more, I'd go with HS. But I think i'm letting my bias for the actress lead me :X

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

which one I like more, I'd go with HS

Yay, am not alone!

[orangebreeze.livejournal.com]

I think so too, acutally. She's behaving like a child, attacking everyone to shield herself. She's deliberately hurting others to keep herself from being hurt or to get even. I can see where she get's it from. But she's intelligent enough to know what's right and wrong when coping with other.
In my opinion she's as spoiled as Hyo Sun, only in another way. She loves bathing in her own misery because that's the way it should be. She reminds me of my teenager sister in her worst stages.
During the last two episodes I found that Hyo Sun is hardly smiling anymore. She's got this sad puppy face most of the time. And it's Eun Jo's and her mother's fault. I hate them for that.
On the other hand, Hyo Sun can be very demanding and self-centered. She's stubborn and selfish, just like Eun Jo. So in a way, they are quite similar, they're only dealing with their issues in a different way.
I really really hope this family will stop hurting each other. And soon. It's not doing them any good. Just look at the little baby brother. He's already pretty twisted as well...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

She loves bathing in her own misery because that's the way it should be. She reminds me of my teenager sister in her worst stages.


Oh yes. It's the whole teen 'the whole world hates me, I will show them!' attitude - I rememeber it so well.

I think both HS and she are deeply flawed and damaged - I just prefer HS's brand of damage myself.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

HHMMM. I am absolutely the other way. EJ os no angel, but I can see where she is coming from. Where HS- immature spoiled so-and-so, victim complex, etc. Although the episode 6 is particualr telling (you haven't seen it yet?), we get given HS's real thoughts abut EJ and sthey are plain horrible. Please don't start me on her. I could give it to her charcatter at 18, but 24 she should be doing something useful already instead of spending days wallowing in self-pity.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I've seen all of ep 6 and nope - still team Hyo Sun.

At least if I were seated next to her at a party I'd be assured I won't be snapped at for no reason. But I can't say I adore HS - I like her more than EJ but she's no typical plucky saintly girl.

CU is a rarity for me - a drama I love where I don't like any of the characters as people, except for Jung Woo.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I also don't particular like anyone, but I am drawn to EJ. I can deal with people like this in RL - as long as they say what they think I can do it. May be comes from working with men the majority of my life.

Where HS - I would have surely snapped her in two myself and a party with her would have driven me UP THE WALL. Ever being at a party with a person who wnats everyone's attention all to herself/himslef? I usually run away and hide from those as i can't make any scathing remarks at someone's party. Seriously, I hate HS as i haven't hated a charcater for a long long time.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh Gawd! Me too!

Hyo Sun in episode 5 and 6 turned me 180 degrees! I felt so very bad for her. How I completely felt for her when she realized she's now an outsider in her own family... in the family, she helped bring into their household. It's just so very heartbreaking for her.And seeing her yearn for that connection with Eun Jo. How much she thirst for her approval only to get the door be shut to her face like that makes me root for her even more. It's so sad seeing that all she can hold onto now is the superficial connection with her "family". The way she gives in to her stepmother's materialistic manipulation (i.e. bags) just to win a momentary and hypocritical adoration from her. The way she goes into trance when she hears Eun Jo praising her for looking pretty (although EJ is coyly doing that to make her do what she wants her to). and when she realized that my heart shattered a million pieces for her.

Like you, I get why Eun Jo is the way she is. I get how awful she suffers because of her mother and the way they've been living. What I don't get however is how come she feels so guilty for the step dad, how she overcompensates to step dad for her mother's evil deeds, but she can't feel a tinge of that same guilt for Hyo Sun and how she just can't bring herself to treat her good even just a weenie bit? Just let her in for a second. Maybe she's thinking it's all Hyo Sun's fault that everything has come to this or maybe she feels she's just faking it anyway. But to Hyo Sun's defense, I think she WAS sincere before when she wanted so bad to connect with her sister. If Eun Jo hadn't pushed her so much against the edge, she wouldn't have turned dark on her. I guess it wasn't completely honest on HS's part but at least she was trying whereas Eun Jo refused to and even drove her to her breaking limit.

On the other hand, I can't bring myself to get pissed at EJ either. Especially not after she breaks down at the end of E06 when she learned an awful awful truth.

Thus, although I'm still not shipping HS for Ki Hoon (and it's interesting how I'm less affected by the romantic plot, even with cutie hottie C!J!M!, as compared to the dynamic between the sisters-EJ and HS), I'm leaning a lil more for team Hyo Sun if we're talking about Eun Jo - Hyo Sun rivalry.

At the end of the day, more than anyone in CS I'd like Mom to suffer a painful punishment in the end. She's interesting and all but she's such a conniving biatch! I wouldn't wish her death (yet?) because I have a inexplicably irrevocable soft spot for mother characters.

ALSO ALSO... I never thought I'd get over how annoyed I was with Seo Woo's OTT cutesy antics for the first 2 (and some little parts of 3 and 4) episode, but but but she was beyond amazingly fantastic in the last couple of episodes especially the last one. She totally redeemed herself in my book. For me, this'll be my first Seo Woo project (I know, it's a shame I haven't tried Tamra) so I started wondering what the hype was about her but now I totally get it. She's super amazing! I now understand irritatingly annoying HS was part of her character and if she ticked me off like that before and she made me root for her now well she's doing a hell of an awesome job.

Oh dear, sorry for such a long incoherent rambling. Feel free to ignore me. :D

hagrid here :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Hey hagrid! :)

The way she gives in to her stepmother's materialistic manipulation (i.e. bags) just to win a momentary and hypocritical adoration from her. The way she goes into trance when she hears Eun Jo praising her for looking pretty (although EJ is coyly doing that to make her do what she wants her to). and when she realized that my heart shattered a million pieces for her.


She is a very affectionate person, desperate for affection - I can get that more than EJ's aloofness.

I don't hate EJ, I get where she is coming from, but emotionally I do not find her appealing.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi. I've been reading your journal for awhile for your drama posts, but I wanted to comment on some of the points you made here.

It seems like when people side with on of the two sisters in this dramas, it reflects a little of their own personality. HyoSun may be nice at heart, but she is a spoiled brat. She's acting out because she isn't at the center of everyone's attention. EunJo is mean and cold, and wounded inside. She seems to have gotten even colder after KiHoon left, because he was the first one who managed to get somewhere past her defenses, then just up and left her. From her perspective, letting anyone in, including nice-step dad, is probably going to end in pain.

Previous to the season 5 opening, the two sisters seemed to have some silent truce with each other. EunJo didn't look like she spent the last 8 years abusing HyoSun. HyoSun knows she's in trouble for her credit card use, and her plan is to try to get EunJo to put in a good word for her. She's even bought a bag for EunJo. If EunJo took every opportunity to rip HyoSun apart for 8 years, could they even fake civility like that?
EunJo's fangs come out after HyoSun brings up KiHoon. HyoSun knows it's EunJo's weak spot, and brings up the lie randomly just to rile EunJo up. The verbal lashing just seemed like the shove to HyoSun's push.

Also, EunJo seems to be capable of having civil relationships with other people. It's not really a spoiler for episode 6 since it's such a small scene, but EunJo works in a lab with other people, and they seem to be on semi-friendly terms. The other person even wants to set EunJo up on dates and seems to have said nice things about her.

2) It's kind of a cultural thing. Especially for someone who is as old fashioned as the step dad. If you're living with your parents, depending on them for money, and not working/unmarried, you can still be considered a child to them and are expected to follow their rules. HyoSun probably has a curfew because she continues to be irresponsible.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It seems like when people side with on of the two sisters in this dramas, it reflects a little of their own personality. HyoSun may be nice at heart, but she is a spoiled brat.

I hope you aren't implying I am a spoiled brat :P

Joking aside, I agree HS isn't perfect but at least she is nice - it may be a superficial niceness but it's still more than what you'd get from EJ. The thought of being anywhere near the vicinity of someone like EJ gives me the creeps.

[boginje.livejournal.com]

Well, there are over 200 million (6-14 years old) children all over the world doing some form of child labor (usually related to agriculture) - around 100 million are street children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_children), there are tons of starving and sick people in Africa (in some African counties because of the AIDS epidemics and the lack of food and pure water life expectancy is 37 years), just in 2006 alone 8,4 million people worldwide became refugees …. SO I GET WHY YOU MAY THINK EJ SHOULD STOP BITCHING AND START CHANGING.
BUT, SHE STILL LIVES WITH HER MOTHER, HER STEPFATHER ACTUALLY CARES FOR HER (which does not help at all cuz she now feels even more ashamed of her mother and herself), HS IS ALWAYS FAKING SINCERITY, SHE IS NOT RECEIVING ANY PROFESSIONAL HELP(BTW,in real life even with therapy full „recovery“ is expected after 15-20 years in cases like EJ`s- personality disorders are really hard to treat)…… - IT IS NO WONDER EJ DIDN`T CHANGE MUCH.
I was thinking of writing about all the little scenes were we can see exactly how she did change a bit (or at least adapted) but princess_dexter and Anonymous already pointed out those scenes.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand why she is the way she is but her life isn't so bad, not even compared with refugees or famine victims. It's just - snarling gets old at some point, IMO, and she should be getting over it.

[thinking-lotus.livejournal.com]

What I thought after watching the most recent eps is "This change in circumstances has been good for Eun Jo but terrible for Hyo Sun." Hyo Sun's father has nurtured and encouraged Eun Jo but Eun Jo's mother has been a bad influence on Hyo Sun. It's as though fate is trying to balance things out a little. Though, despite her material advantages, you could make a case for Hyo Sun not having such a great childhood, since she lost her mom at such a young age.

But, I have to say, even though Hyo Sun is "nice" and probably fun to hang out with, I don't really see her as an admirable character. She had a lot of advantages and she let them all go to waste. She's not a hard worker. Yeah, she succumbed to the con-artistry of Eun Jo's mother (and therefore got her dad ensnared) and I sympathize with her, but I would sympathize MORE if she figured it out and tried to do something about it instead of flailing around and being mean to her stepsister and spending too much money. At the same time, I see her as emotionally astray due to the death of her mother and the manipulative influence of her stepmother. So I really can't blame her too much, but she still doesn't appeal to me as a character.

Whereas Eun Jo seems, to me, to be doing the best she can with her limited resources. She's extremely damaged, there is no question about it. Her emotional range doesn't quite get her from A to B. She's no fun at parties. But at least she's aware of a lot of nuances that Hyo Sun seems completely oblivious to and she is trying, in her own limited, damaged way, to make things right.

The proof of the pudding will be when we see what happens if things improve emotionally for Hyo Sun and start going (more) pear-shaped for Eun Jo, because right now they are at opposite swings of the pendulum.

I expect this is what will be occurring in the rest of the drama (perhaps more than once).

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

What I thought after watching the most recent eps is "This change in circumstances has been good for Eun Jo but terrible for Hyo Sun." Hyo Sun's father has nurtured and encouraged Eun Jo but Eun Jo's mother has been a bad influence on Hyo Sun.

Exactly.

I actually even like her lack of ambition - most people go through life without any - under other circs she'd have some random job then be married to a nice guy and have kids. She is silly and self-centered but there are worse things to be.