Gone With The Wind makes me :headdesk:

[dangermousie]

Really, one of the most frustrating things about that book (and movie) is that ambiguous ending. Will she get him back? Will he let her? What? It bugged me when I first read the book (in tandem with my Mom) at 12. It bugs me now, 15+ years later. I need to know, and no, the atrocious "Scarlett" is not a good answer.

You just reread the whole damn book hoping for the two of them to get their act together at the same time and of course it never happens. There are two moments especially that drive me up the wall.

The first is the "morning after" (well, in the book it's a day+ after, isn't it?), after the whole "carry her to bed and make passionate love to her till morning" scene. Because this is totally Rhett's effort, in his severely messed-up way, to do the best he can and be the best lover ever and really try to please her and maybe that way she'll forget about Ashley and he can show her through his body what he can never say to her (yes, the two of them could keep shrinks happy for years) and the awful thing is it works. She is totally into him (OK, bad choice of words) after that, but then he comes back and....argh!

Basically, I want to take the two of them and smash their heads against the wall. As in "Can't you tell he is shaking in his shoes?" and "can't you tell she is devastated because she thinks you left her bed to go to Belle?" Argh! Especially since he tells her at the end that if she made any move at that point, he would have fallen to his knees and kissed her feet. Argh! I love my angst, but when it has a happy ending, dammit!

And of course the whole miscarriage scene. When she wants him and calls for him but there isn't anyone to hear her, and meanwhile he is falling apart because she doesn't want him (btw, Clark Gable crying? Hot). I remember yelling at the book at that point :D Seriously, this is enough to make you want to read "Scarlett." Almost.

Comments

[koalathebear.livejournal.com]

No, don't do that. And worse - don't look at that awful movie with Val Kilmer's ex wife and Timothy Dalton. I regret reading your post because it reminds me of the agonies the book and the movie put me through when I read them.

I think in my mind - they were never going to be together again. Scarlett had hurt him too much and doesn't he say something about not being able to put pieces together once they've been broken? It's been ages since I've read the book or seen the movie. Then again, I did think: "He loved her soooo much - surely he could forgive her again" :)

For me, one of the worst things about the movie is that Leslie Howard is so wet that I could never imagine how Scarlett could prefer him over Rhett. At least with the book version, I could imagine him but Leslie Howard is just ... limp.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I tried reading the book years ago and just gave up. It was dreadful.

I think in my mind - they were never going to be together again. Scarlett had hurt him too much and doesn't he say something about not being able to put pieces together once they've been broken? It's been ages since I've read the book or seen the movie. Then again, I did think: "He loved her soooo much - surely he could forgive her again"

And that's my thinking too...that's why it's so confusing and driving me crazy. I do think she would have a better chance once:
a. he is convinced her feeling isn't a passing thing (he says something to the effect of, who knows if this is a new fancy of hers, or similar), or a random weird reaction to Melanie's death
b. Bonnie's death fades a bit. The death of a child can wreck even the most stable marriage, and theirs wasn't that.

Rhett has a really high breaking point but I think he's reached it, at the end. (Unlike Scarlett, whom I don't think anything could ever break). He is hurting horribly at the end, and he certainly needs time away and to recover. But he does say he will come back regularly to keep up appearances, and I do think that if anyone could get him back, it's Scarlett.

For me, one of the worst things about the movie is that Leslie Howard is so wet that I could never imagine how Scarlett could prefer him over Rhett. At least with the book version, I could imagine him but Leslie Howard is just ... limp.

The thing is, I generally adore Leslie Howard (he make one heck of Prof. Higgins and Scarlet Pimpernel). I actually like him in the movie as well: he has a certain cerebral, wistful appeal. But there is no comparison (in the book or movie) to Rhett. Come on! Any straight woman not reduced to quivering jelly by that guy, and who has Rhett in her bed, clamoring for her attention and love, and runs after Ashley, has something wrong with her!

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

Scarlett and Rhett are both very *headdesk* worthy. I need to read GWTW...I've seen the movie several times, but haven't ever picked up the book. Which is funny, as my mom wrote her senior thesis in high-school on it. :p

I want to smash the two of them the way I want to smash Catherine and Heathcliff. There's just something about purely selfish, twisted, painful, angsty, and utterly romantic couples...

btw, Clark Gable crying? Hot Guh. I know. Men in movies were so sexy back then. Not that there aren't gorgeous actors now that I fangirl *lots* , but the ones back then had a certain gravitas that lent itself to swooning.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

There's just something about purely selfish, twisted, painful, angsty, and utterly romantic couples...


Oh yes. The whole thought about all that amazing reservoir of love being there and utterly wasted is horrible. Because at the end of the boom she has this heartbreaking realization that Rhett has always loved her and always stood by her and protected her and cared for her but she was too wrapped up in the phantom of Ashley to see it.

And she always had these nightmares of being hungry and would do anything not to be hungry and she realizes at the end that if she had Rhett, she wouldn't even mind going hungry and that's when you realize that yes, she truly really loves him and...gaaaaaah!

The scene in the movie where she tells him she doesn't want any more kids always makes me want to look away, like such a trainwreck. Because they've been rather happy up until that point, and he spoils her rotten, and he is so sweet and caring and then he comes into her room and is all afectionate and then she says about "no sex" and he sees Ashley's picture...and every time I just want to grab her and prevent the words from coming out of her mouth.

I know. Men in movies were so sexy back then.

Oh yes. The think that gets me so much about Gable in that scene is that he is so alpha. He is just think really strong, "manly" guy and he is broken down enough to cry and that just really gets you.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

The whole thought about all that amazing reservoir of love being there and utterly wasted is horrible. Yes! Couldn't have said it better. It's heartbreaking romantic tragedy at its best.

I never understood what Scarlett saw in Ashley, anyway. He's sweet, but...*shrugs* Let him be happy with Melanie and move on, wench. Rhett is much more suited to her, and a man .

Because they've been rather happy up until that point, and he spoils her rotten, and he is so sweet and caring and then he comes into her room and is all affectionate - that's why I do NOT understand her. She's really not a likeable character. He tries so hard to make her happy, and she's never satisfied, never pleased, never content...and only realizes she loves him when he can't stand to "give a damn" any longer.

I cannot watch the scene in the movie when their little girl falls off the horse. It almost makes me sick. It's just too horrible. Sigh. GWTW is one of the most draining movies ever made, I think.

He is just think really strong, "manly" guy and he is broken down enough to cry and that just really gets you. Yes. Seeing such a masculine man break down like that is very effective and impactful. Of course, seeing any guy cry gets me...but there's just something extra when it's a gorgeous, very strong guy.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

that's why I do NOT understand her. She's really not a likeable character. He tries so hard to make her happy, and she's never satisfied, never pleased, never content...and only realizes she loves him when he can't stand to "give a damn" any longer.

That's why it's a classic and not "Seducing the Renegade" Bodice Ripper # 2138368726387.

Scarlett? Always was a rude, delluded and spiteful bitch in my eyes. That's what makes her quite unique in the whole romance genre. I liked and respected her for that, and I never brought the whole "OMG, she's so strong and loyal and only doing it for Tara." excuses. (To me) Rhett and Scarlett *work* because he has a less than perfect past and personality as well.

But I'm sure everybody has their own interpretation for the book. :)

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree. She is the epitome of deluded and spiteful. Yes, she's strong...but her willpower comes more from arrogance and being spoiled than it does from true courage. And Rhett, of course, is far from perfect himself. They would work together if only they could make it work. But alas, two selfish and unyielding personalities does not a happy ending make.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Of course, they are too much alike. What makes them so attractive to each other is what screws it up as well.

I do think Rhett is kinder and much more self-aware, but then he is also older and more experienced as well.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

I do think Rhett is kinder and much more self-aware

Oh, definitely. Which is why watching him hurt over her is so heartwrenching.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think she is both selfish and rude and bitchy. And she is also strong and loyal to Tara and capable of some amazing acts of courage. That is why she is so fascinating.

And I also like that at the end, Rhett just doesn't jump into her arms (however crazy it drives me). Because some things just aren't easily fixable. And actions have consequences.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Exactly. To have a character who has such clearly good and such clearly bad characteristics, it makes her more real and it really improves the book. Same for the realism in the relationships and the character dynamics.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think we share a brain :D

I never understood what Scarlett saw in Ashley, anyway. He's sweet, but...*shrugs* Let him be happy with Melanie and move on, wench

Exactly. And it's clear to anyone with half an eye that Ashley loves Melanie, and he just wants Scarlett: quite an opposite to Scarlett's earlier belief that Ashley's love=spiritual, Rhett's=base and physical. Rhett is the one who knows her and loves her, mind and soul, though of course he finds her body pleasing too :)

She realizes in the book that the reason she clung to Ashley is because she couldn't have him and she is stubborn. If he courted her, she'd have been bored with him in a week. And then of course, he bacame a remainder of her innocence and lost life before the war.

She's really not a likeable character. He tries so hard to make her happy, and she's never satisfied, never pleased, never content

She is dreadful at reading people, and she never notices that Rhett loves her. She thinks he wants her and finds her amusing and that's about it. Of course, he can never let her know what he feels (he thinks) because as he says it later, "you use love like a whip." And of course he tells her that didn't she realize that she could have owned him completely if only she'd shown she cared in the slightest. And he tells her he came back after the War, even though he knew he wasn't safe just because he had to find her *sigh* Waste, waste, waste, waste...

I cannot watch the scene in the movie when their little girl falls off the horse. It almost makes me sick. It's just too horrible.

Oh yes. Argh. The death of a child is always really horrible, but for Rhett, Bonnie is basically a miniature Scarlett. He tells her that she was just the way he imagined she used to be, only she loved him (which is such a heartbreaking thing to say). Even Scarlett-the-super-dense noticed that after her miscarriage (which is when he gave up in the book), his eyes started following Bonnie all the time the way they used to follow her. And of course she was jealous and din't know why. *smacks her*

Seeing such a masculine man break down like that is very effective and impactful. Of course, seeing any guy cry gets me...but there's just something extra when it's a gorgeous, very strong guy.

Indeed. If he is like that, than you know just how hurt he is, and how hard it is for him to break down, and just knowing there is that vulnerability there...

[thelana.livejournal.com]

If he courted her, she'd have been bored with him in a week.

That's the way I see it too. Hey, she's Amrita Singh from Aaina (well, slightly less insane)

Of course, he can never let her know what he feels (he thinks) because as he says it later, "you use love like a whip."

I think it's a pretty realistic reaction of his. Especially considering the Ashley situation with Scarlett = treats people badly who give her what she wants and stubbornly hounds what she can't have. So maybe it's him hoping that if he hides a part of himself from her she wont lose interest.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

well, slightly less insane

And prettier and better dressed :D

I think it's a pretty realistic reaction of his.

Yes it is. Scarlett (at least younger one) would delight in knowing she could bring a strong man to his knees.

Of course, the problem with his caginess is that he overlooks or doesn't "give in" when doing so would have made matters better: after "the night" or when he comes back with Bonnie, for one.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

I think we share a brain Hee! We've had it happen before, too. ;)

Rhett is the one who knows her and loves her, mind and soul *nods* Yes. And the thing is - although he physically loves her, too - he is the ONLY one who also spiritually loves her, and transcends the purely asthetic qualities that everyone else sees.

You know, I've never thought of Ashley as a symbolic character, but you're right. He's her innocence, her naivite (that doesn't look like it's spelled right...), the reminder of life before the ravages of war. And of course, there will always be a barrier between an old life and the new which makes the old life unattainable.

She is dreadful at reading people... And he tells her he came back after the War, even though he knew he wasn't safe just because he had to find her *sigh* Waste, waste, waste, waste...

Sigh. It always makes me cry because of this.

for Rhett, Bonnie is basically a miniature Scarlett. He tells her that she was just the way he imagined she used to be, only she loved him (which is such a heartbreaking thing to say). I think it's honestly one of the most tragic things about the story. He loves Bonnie so fully, and she binds he and Scarlett together...Losing her further alienates them from each other, and it seems so cosmically unfair.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

he is the ONLY one who also spiritually loves her, and transcends the purely asthetic qualities that everyone else sees

And the thing is, he is also the only one who really knows her. She precents a facade to everyone, or at least tries, the appropriate and desirable one. But Rhett loves her for herself, not a put-on proper image, and she doesn't realize or treasure how rare that is.

I think it's honestly one of the most tragic things about the story. He loves Bonnie so fully, and she binds he and Scarlett together...Losing her further alienates them from each other, and it seems so cosmically unfair.

Of course. If Melanie had died and Scarlett had the same realization but Bonnie was still alive, than he and she could have made a go at it: he wouldn't be broken, and he would definitely try hard for Bonnie's sake. Argh! Stupid girl. Why did she have to jump her pony!

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Like the movie, adored the book (I'm generally more of a book person unless the movie brings something very different to the table).

Loved the ending. Then again, I love evil endings.

My theory is that they probably would have reunited eventually, but it never would have been the way it could have been if they hadn't missed the time frame.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

My theory is that they probably would have reunited eventually, but it never would have been the way it could have been if they hadn't missed the time frame.

It would be better than nothing though....

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it could have been pretty good anyway. But both Rhett and Scarlett are very passionate, all or nothing people to some extent. So I could see them grappling with that.

But I guess we'll never know.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I guess we'll never know.

And that's what drives me crazy. "Scarlett" was a crappy book, but even if it was marvelously written, it wasn't by Mitchell so it "doesn't count."

So I could see them grappling with that

That would actually be rather interesting to explore. Though sad in many ways. Maybe someone should give Scarlett a time machine. My 12-year old self used to fantasize about it a lot. That way she can go back in time and I guess Rhett would be mildly surprised that his wife looks a bit older, but I am sure he'd soon get other considerations to distract him :D

[thelana.livejournal.com]

<= LOL reminds me of those crazy old Superman comics where Lois Lane goes back in time trying to steal Superman from Lana Lang and vice versa. :D

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Heeeee. Now I am imagining Scarlett with shoulder pads and Rhett in spandex. *snicker*

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Hah and you claim you don't like AUs ;)