IRIS - thoughts on subbed eps 12-16
Dec. 6th, 2009 01:59 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dangermousie![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
boycottbananas, Thank You!!!!In other news, I have spent the morning marathonning the subbed eps 12-16 of IRIS (wirebox subber owns my heart) and my head is now spinning. I am not sure I can take that much awesomeness in one sitting.
* Hyun Joon is amazing - I don't mean his capability with guns or the ability to withstand a crazy amount of punishment. No, what I mean (and that is going to sound corny, excuse me in advance) is his enormous capacity for love. The scene between him and Sawoo in ep 15 almost made me cry - because even after all that's happened, he loves him. He really does - his comment (to both Sun Hwa and later Seung Hee) about Budapest - that he knows it was just orders, that he would have done just the same in Sawoo's place, breaks my heart - he is trying so hard to absolve Sawoo, even though I am 100% sure that if he was in Sawoo's place, no way. But yes, his capacity for love isn't shown in the way he loves Seung Hee (because he would die for her, but after all she is the one person who stood by him) but in the way he still loves (and weeps for!) Sawoo, who's helped made his life a living hell. And in the way he reacts to Sun Hwa's confession that she knew Seung Hee was alive and didn't tell him. He isn't angry, he just wants to know why, and when he can see why from her reaction, he just holds her. The fact that he can love like this after all that's happened to him is pretty darn incredible. I wonder if he holds onto people in his life so hard because he's always had so few of them. I would mention that Lee Byung Hun is absolutely incredible in the role but that goes without saying. Oh, and the scene with him interrogating Seung Hee in ep 13 is still the most emotionally brutal thing I've seen in a kdrama (that takes some doing) and their reunion in ep 16 still makes me cry.
* Seung Hee, tough and smart and loving and clever and angry, is officially my favorite drama heroine ever. You know, people criticize Kim Tae Hee's acting but not me. Is she the best actress to ever exist? No, but she is fine enough. And more importantly, in a dramaworld which is filled with cutesy helpless heroines, Tae Hee has played two of the toughest kdrama women ever - first in Nine-Tailed Fox and now here. Also, I do love that Hyun Joon can forgive Sawoo for what he did to him, but Seung Hee cannot forgive Sawoo on Hyun Joon's behalf. Oh, Sawoo, how much you lost. Also, what is with her and Baek-san. Anyone else would have acted the way Seung-Hee has, snooping and rebelling, they would have been executed.
* Ah, yes, Sawoo. He is fascinating and complex and repellent. My dislike burns like a nice steady flame (big credit to Jung Joon Ho, seeing that his Last Scandal character is basically my drama boyfriend). The tragedy of Sawoo is that he isn't an utter sociopath/psychopath like Baek-San or Vic (this latter, I am sure, is using Computer Girl for some nefarious purpose). He is a normal person who's slowly went worse and worse and is now irredeemable (of all the random references, he reminds me of a villain in 1905 novel called "Victor of Salamis", where the hero's best friend did one bad thing and then it escalated and escalated and he ended up framing this friend for treason and making his life total hell and wooing his wife and eventually killing himself). And the sad thing is he's had so many people who love him - Hyun Joon, Director Park, even Seung Hee. And yet he's betrayed/abused them all, and for what? Nothing. His excuse to Seung Hee that he did it all for her is so very hollow. Fine, he was going to kill Hyun Joon so she won't have to (though way to take away her agency) - that explains Budapest. Do tell me whether he killed the Voice's bodyguards for Seung Hee? Whether he allowed terrorists to run around Seoul with a nuke (the moment he was lost for me, utterly) for Seung Hee? Indeed.
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no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 07:26 pm (UTC)Would like to say more but that picture of your lunch yesterday? Can't think of anything else but food right now. And since I can't possibly inhale it through the screen, need to go find some for myself.
I'll say this much though. Was watching bits of early eps. of LS (b/c I wanted to change my soompi avatar) and it's jarring how different *he* is. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, he's an actor after all, but it's striking either way. And this is going to sound insane, but I can't even imagine JaeBin playing SaWoo & going home, the character's in such a dark place, it just doesn't compute with a happy, normal life. Probably best I don't touch LS until IRIS is all over.
no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 09:38 pm (UTC)pt 1
Date: 2009-12-07 01:25 am (UTC)=========
This is also a bit of follow-up to your comments re: ep. 11 when SW calls Baek San (so glad you're all caught up, though still amazed you managed to process that much in one sitting)--
Even with just ep. 11 (ie., w/o seeing ep. 15), I never really felt SW disagreed with Baek San or that he actually believed that somehow because Baek San pushed him to the edge, it absolved him of the crime. But I really appreciated that at least for once (given that they never gave him any such scene until then), we got some insight into all that turmoil beneath the surface--his feelings for SH, for HJ, his deep-seated anger & resentment against Baek San, but most of all against himself. And IMO, ep. 15 sent the strongest signal yet he doesn't think of himself as redeemable or that he can go back to who he was.
It's funny, it's not as if we didn't have evidence of how HJ felt about SW even after the betrayal... his inability to share it with SH in Budapest, his reactions on his return to Korea whenever he 'saw' SW or recalled their time together, or even better, his scene with SunHwa in the car (in ep. 14) when she wanted to know who SW was (I nearly lost it when his first words were 'my friend')... all of that built up to their face-off at last... And yet, I was completely floored to see how much he loved him still. I never would have guessed the first thing he wanted to know, after all that had happened, the carnage he'd witnessed with his own eyes at Dr Yoo's, the part he knew he'd played in the death of yet another person who mattered to him... the first thing he wanted to know was whether he was still his friend or IRIS when he drew that gun in Budapest. As if that would lessen the pain of his betrayal, justify wanting to avenge him too, justify his own inability to stop loving him. And as much as there's a part of me that would like to shout he was still his friend then (yeah, I'm too invested), SW's also brutally right too. (And I'm glad he was.) 'What difference does it make (when I became IRIS)?' Esp. now, with all that's happened. It's what he says again, before he screams you weren't in my heart at that moment--(disagreeing with the subber's translation here) 'What does it matter, when? What difference would it make now if you knew? I TRIED TO KILL YOU!'.
And I don't think SW himself was unaffected by what he'd heard (god, no), to learn that HJ never blamed him, to realize that he still loves him, regardless of whether he's able to process it or accept it yet. The way I see it, his scene later on with SangHyun (his sunbae) is a companion scene to his confrontation with HJ... he was just so vulnerable there, his face completely an open book, that I kept thinking, would he be so defenseless if he hadn't just gone through an emotional h*llhole with HJ, if HJ hadn't made him bleed so much. Maybe, heaven knows SangHyun asked him & told him everything we wanted since forever ('why are you like this, what are you/who are you doing this for, this is not you, I know you're hurting b/c it's not you'). That face-off with HJ in the basement was awesome (heartbreaking, but awesome), but the scene with SangHyun was just as golden (partly b/c it was so unexpected--I thought we'd seen the last of him, but nope, they used him to be the viewers' voice to Baek San & SW). To have yet another person care for SW so much, to believe in him--sitting there facing charges of treason, yet he blames himself for having dragged him to the NSS, worries for him, wants to shake him & yell at him, but still can't stop himself from believing there's still good in him. It was as if the writers were trying to kill me. And SW. I liked that he didn't offer any excuses. I liked that he couldn't take it any more & had to leave.
Re: pt 1
Date: 2009-12-07 03:10 pm (UTC)I loved that so much - that even after such incontrovertible evidence he still loves and cares for him.
That makes me wonder even more at Sawoo - to betray someone who loves you like that is just - I don't know. What struck me isn't his initial action against HJ back in Budapest. Fine. But what really dooms him is that he kept going. He didn't need to do the rest to prtect Seung Hee. He could have resigned after this, or at least just kept his head down. But instead he kept going, as if wanting to damn himself forever.
Re: pt 1
Date: 2009-12-07 11:15 pm (UTC)I don't think even JJH knows. Is SaWoo infinitely more interesting (and attractive--on a purely superficial, eye-candy level; not saying the character's dating material) now than he was at the beginning? H*ll yeah. But the PTB haven't been exactly helpful with the whys & wherefores of his 'swift transformation' & descent into monster-hood. Partly or largely for the shock effect, I suppose. I watch like a hawk everything he says & does, and I still get whiplash. (Like when he tells Baek San in ep. 14 he wants to 'take care of HJ.' What/Why??!! Where did that active desire come from?) My hats off to the writers if they can make it make sense in the remaining 4 eps. (I'll even kiss their feet), but color me a little skeptical.
Re: pt 1
Date: 2009-12-08 12:03 am (UTC)Re: "taking care of HJ" - I think there, to me, he was more trying to convince himself than anything, if that makes sense. Like he is pushing himself to be the worst he can be, and the more effort it is, the harder he tries. Maybe he thinks if he finally got rid of HJ all his unhappiness over his course of action would disappear.
I often rant over kdramas being too long (does the world really need 50 eps of compatible people bickering slightly, as in Smile You?) but IRIS is a rare drama which could have really benefitted from further length - two years have passed since the start of the story. Two years. That's a huge amount of time in which people can change drastically - but due to time constraints we don't see the nitty-gritty (time constraints are visible everywhere - I know there was supposed to be some sort of romantic feeling from Sunhwa's superior towards her but it's been hinted at, at most).
I know they probably couldn't get the actors for longer and I love IRIS anyway (it's my top of the year) but oh how I wish they had more time.
Re: pt 1
Date: 2009-12-08 05:40 pm (UTC)That really came across in ep. 15, when he kept rebuffing HJ's offers of love, redemption, justification, anything. I even believe there's a part of him that wants HJ to kill him. But in ep. 14? Felt like it came out of nowhere... though I suppose the real point TPTB were trying to emphasize was SW's deep-seated resentment against Baek San.
I know there was supposed to be some sort of romantic feeling from Sunhwa's superior towards her but it's been hinted at, at most).
Actually I'm glad they didn't go there. He's like the only sane, rational character left in IRIS, the one whose personality probably underwent the least changes from the beginning, who didn't get caught up in all the sturm und drang of love & hatred, and I think he benefited from that. That's gotta be part of the reason why viewers find him a breath of fresh air in the middle of all the angst & insanity.
I know they probably couldn't get the actors for longer and I love IRIS anyway (it's my top of the year) but oh how I wish they had more time.
Given IRIS' fast-paced style, one more ep. might have been just what they needed to address some issues here & there. But extensions are always in even numbers, and I keep feeling two more (or worse, 4+) & the show would have dragged in the middle. And since I'm hard pressed to think of one single drama whose storytelling benefited from extensions, I'm just glad the IRIS cast is solid enough they can make the most out of any scene.
Re: pt 1
Date: 2009-12-08 07:17 pm (UTC)I am glad too - I like that this character is motivated by ideology and patriotism, not passion or revenge or whatever. It's refreshing.
Re: extensions. BOF was extended by one ep and so was Coffee Prince so I suppose it's possible, but you are right, 2 or more might have gotten draggy. I have NEVER seen an extension improve a show. I guess it would have been awesome to plan for 21/22 eps from the start? But oh well.
pt 2
Date: 2009-12-07 01:26 am (UTC)I have no idea what the writers have in mind for these characters & their relationships in the remaining 4 eps. But I'm pretty impressed that on the eve of a major plot development, there were breakthroughs such that if there's a day after tomorrow (and we know there is), there can only be steps forward. That's no small feat.
Re: pt 2
Date: 2009-12-07 03:07 pm (UTC)Exactly. I always wondered if he ever thought which way it was going to go even if Hyun Joon stayed dead. Did he really think he could have a happy relationship with her with such a huge secret hanging over them.
Re: pt 2
Date: 2009-12-07 11:16 pm (UTC)I get the sense from interviews that's the one area where JJH wanted to hold his ground, not to have his character pursue SH actively, just watch over her. He said he never asked TPTB any favor for his character, but I get the impression as bad as SW got, that was too much even for JJH. But it's not as if they had him pursue her actively anyway, though I don't know if it's because they couldn't make their minds about making SW evil all the way or whatever. Whatever the motivations, she's been SW's raison d'etre as long as he can remember, she's now as clear-eyed about him as she's ever been, so despite my frustrations & reservations, I'm still interested to see where they go from here.
Re: pt 2
Date: 2009-12-08 12:04 am (UTC)You are right, now that I think about it, he's never pushed himself on Seung Hee in terms of dating. I wonder if it's in part because that way he could feel he is still a good guy? "I am doing all these awful things but it's for Seung Hee's sake and I am being selfless in not expecting her to love me back?" I wonder.
Re: pt 2
Date: 2009-12-08 05:41 pm (UTC)This is just speculation, but I wonder if JJH (and/or the writers) didn't see that as the one remaining thing that might allow him to go back to who he was, if that's in the card in the final eps. I know SW has crossed so many points of no return that some might not even care, but I can see why if JJH wanted to keep the door open, he might have seen SW pushing himself on SH as the final straw for his character.
It's not as if he's opposed to playing or immersing himself in evil characters (one of his better-known roles was a psychopath who apparently killed his own parents), but I get the sense he's had a hard time with SaWoo because he started out good then ended up on the complete opposite end. He mentioned in a recent interview he can't get out of his head the look on HJ/LBH's face in Hungary when SW betrays him, and when he sees LBH (that interview was a day or two after they'd filmed the basement 'reunion'), all he wants to do is beg for forgiveness.
Re: pt 2
Date: 2009-12-08 07:15 pm (UTC)That is the oddest and sweetest thing I've read in a while.
I agree, Sawoo's arc is really extreme - I wish we were given more explanations.
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Date: 2009-12-06 11:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-07 01:38 am (UTC)But then even when I'm freaking out & feeling chilled, like at the end of ep. 13... can't stop myself from thinking he looks pretty d@mn good. And don't tell me they/TPTB didn't know what they were doing, the female crew went gaga as well, when they were shooting those scenes.
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Date: 2009-12-07 03:06 pm (UTC)I hope after IRIS wraps he does another drama soon. I know movies are prestigious and awesome and all that, but I get more bang for my 'buck' in a 20-hr drama :)
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Date: 2009-12-07 11:17 pm (UTC)I did hear/read a casting rumor like last month at DCgall (sometimes it's on the mark, sometimes it's pure BS) that said he was one of 4-5 actors who got (but passed on) the synopsis/scripts for one of the roles opposite So Ji-Sub in Road #1.
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Date: 2009-12-08 12:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 07:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 09:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 09:58 pm (UTC)I loved the scene with Sun Hwa and Hyun Joon so very much. I don't romantically ship them but I love their relationship so very much - they are both so damaged and yet with ability to care. I agree, that she's been let down by everyone - her training in NK was beyond horrific and while her immediate superior (name escapes me but you know who I mean) likes her beyond merely boss-subordinate (though I don't think romantically) he still couldn't go to the wall for her - I love that there is someone who would understand her, and who would care for her, even if it isn't romantic love. Perhaps especially because it's not romantic love.
Re: Sawoo. What a waste! All that ability and potential turned toward evil, and it doesn't even make him happy. I have to say huge kudos to JJH because every time I see him I want to stab him but I am also so curious about how he lives with himself and what makes him tick. It's funny because I am sort of rewatching Last Scandal and I just want to glomp/jump JJH in that so much and the disconnect is kinda insane.
no subject
Date: 2009-12-06 11:05 pm (UTC)God this scene! I think it may be my favourite scene so far. I can't help but ship these two just a little. Lee Byung Hun and Kim So Yeon work off of each other so well, imo.
Also how awesome was Seung Hee when she single-handedly took on Sawoo's bodyguards and escaped? DFHLJKDFHJKSDHLF I love the women on this show sfm!
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Date: 2009-12-06 11:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-12-07 09:31 pm (UTC)I'm always amazed at Hyun Joon's capacity for love. No matter how broken or abused he is, his heart stubbornly stays in the right place. I'm not nearly as forgiving as he is. The Sun Hwa/Hyun Joon scene is one of my favourites. Gosh, it made me all tearful. She was so raw emotionally and probably expecting to get shunned but he totally got it! That's my fave non-couple pair, they sort of complement each other as partners.
Ah Sa Woo... his fall from grace has been swift and total. He's a great character, more complex and complicated than Hyun Joon. In a sense more tragic too as it didn't have to go this way, he could have chosen differently. For all his saying that he did it for Seung Hee, the truth is he did it for himself. And deep down he probably knows it too.
Seung Hee is one tough lady. She may well be the toughest one of them all. I'd love to know what she is to Baek San. His actions concerning her are very puzzling.
no subject
Date: 2009-12-08 12:07 am (UTC)That's my fave non-couple pair, they sort of complement each other as partners.
Oh yes, mine too.
I think Hyun Joon's capacity for love and forgiveness is what saved him from becoming a monster, like in the story. Because no matter what, if someone can love like that, they are never irredeemable.
Re: Sawoo. I find him perhaps the most fascinating character in the story and I would kill (well, not really, perhaps maim) for more insight into what goes into his head. Of course, my serious crush on JJH is totally messing me up now he is playing such a cold-blooded bad guy.
Btw - watch Last Scandal!!!!!!!
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Date: 2009-12-08 11:21 am (UTC)I am! :) Got to ep 7 yesterday then subs for 8 did not work and I went "arrrggghhh, not again!" It was too late on the day to do anything about it. I will be continuing today, after I check every single file. I'm using a mediaplayer with TV and sometimes the player just seems to hate the sub-files so they won't show. I have to re-associate them with the vids and they magically work again. Go figure.... If I get really frustrated I'll just crank up my laptop and use that. No problems with subs then.
JJH is a great actor. It's sometimes really hard to believe it's the same guy in both series. Or the one playing the rather dimwit gangster in the original 'My Boss, My Hero'. I still get a giggle every time I think of that one.
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Date: 2009-12-08 04:39 pm (UTC)JJH = my not so secret crush.
Isn't LS adorable?
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Date: 2009-12-08 08:13 pm (UTC)Yes, LS is totally adorable. :)
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Date: 2009-12-08 08:19 pm (UTC)