A case of morals? A CASE OF MORALS?

[dangermousie]

I have no problem separating the artist as a person and as an artist so yes - The Pianist is one of the most amazing moves I've ever seen. It has nothing to do with the fact that Polanski's actions were criminal and he should face the punishment of the law whatever it may be. You know - child rape being heinous and universally despised. Right? Right?

Apparently not.

There is a petition against the treatment of Polanski, signed by a lot of luminaries (Scorcese, Wong Kar Wai, Salman Rushdie, why why why?) which is all about how he is being prosecuted because of a case of morals.

A CASE OF MORALS???

You have got to be frakking kidding me.

A case of morals is when two people who are capable of consent do consent to some activities the state views as immoral - whether because they are gay, unmarried, adulterous, polyamorous, related within prohibited degree etc and the state in question views such activities as immoral.*

* I don't have a problem with any of the above, just using a hypothetical.

I could have even conceivably understood where they were coming from if Polanski and his victim had consensual sex - if statutory rape was the only thing at issue, though in what UNIVERSE is it OK for a grown man to have sex with a 13-year-old child????!!!!

BUT GUESS WHAT, douchebags signing the petition - IT WAS NOT CONSENSUAL. That's right - what he did would be just as illegal and just as criminal if she was 40 instead of 13 - he drugged her and got her drunk and as even after all of that she still said no repeatedly, he raped her.

I cannot possibly see how it could be more of a rape no matter how you slice it.

So - are you saying rape of little children is a case of morals? FUCK YOU.

Don't even get me started on the excuses. They are either irrelevant (yes, yes, he is a genius - does it mean that geniuses above the law) or are pertinent to sentencing and not guilt (his advanced age, lack of other complaints, his horrible life, judicial misconduct - they all have their role in the sentencing - I don't care if on balance the judge finds he shouldn't serve any time in prison - all that has nothing to do with his GUILT or the fact that he has to go through judicial process).

And don't get me started on the whole "the victim wants them to let it go" stuff - once again, maybe pertinent to sentencing. But the reason we have laws is in part to protect/avenge a particular victim and in part to send a societal message that certain actions (such as CHILD RAPE) are not allowed. Seriously, according to the logic of 'victim says to let it go, so we should' anyone who robs a nun or beats up a Buddhist monk shouldn't face any punishment because the holy orders are big on forgiveness.

I honestly don't care if they drag him back or not - LA doesn't have unlimited resources and the scads of money and time they are going to spend fighting for extradition of an old guy who hasn't been anywhere near their area and committing crimes in it for over 30 years could be better spent fighting on a dozen cases which could remove from the streets still LA-dwelling current offenders of various sorts which have the means and desire to commit a future crime in the area.

BUT. BUT. That is a utilitarian argument. It's not "poor mistreated genius, how misunderstood and persecuted you are!" Nothing would make what Polanski did right. Nothing.

Hollywood etc often have "values" I do not agree with (hello Sean Penn and his partying up with Hugo Chavez) but it has never been as stark as this. You know how people love to wallow in right-wing hypocricy? That's right - many right-winders are hypocrites, espousing family values while cavorting with mistresses, prostitutes, or male lovers. Guess what - this proves hypocricy is universal - look at all those major liberals, who claim they have so much respect for women's rights etc - yeah, yeah, it all applies until it's one of their own. Never mind that he raped a child. I think whatever your social and political position, once you get to a certain level of power, you just begin to feel rules don't apply to you and your friends.

Oh,and a last point - oh, he didn't like the punishment so he ran - after all, it was going to be eleven billion years in prison, poor baby. Nice to know that you only face the punishment if it appeals to you. Next time I get a parking ticket, I won't pay it - $100 is too much, in my opinion, so tough luck, parking authorities - if I don't agree, the law is invalid.

Comments

[mishane.livejournal.com]

You know what makes me sad? Actresses that I admire (like Meryl Streep and Cate Blanchett) are on Polanski's side. I just. I can't. I really don't know how they are even justifying this to themselves. Take away all the technicalities and he. raped. a. child. Simple as that.

And the fact that this took over 30 years to do? The guy was living in luxury for 30 years! He wasn't atoning for his sins, he was relaxing in his European homes!! I mean, take away the fact that he raped a child, the fact that he didn't do any kind of penance for it, I mean does the piece of shit regret it at all? UGH. I mean, just UGH.

ARRRGGHHH

Seriously, I didn't read as to why they think it's a case of morals because I'm afraid that reading it will just make me see red. I'll have to read it when I'm in a calmer mood.

[bennet-7.livejournal.com]

Meryl and Cate?

Wow, just when you think it can't get any worse.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

How can any woman, any parent, hell, any human being support him is beyond me. What he did is so beyond the pale it just...

Listen, crazy people - I think Tess is a moody masterpiece. I was shaking during The Pianist - it's in my Top 10 movies of all time. I think he is a genius who deserved his Oscar. SO WHAT. Let him keep his Oscar in Jail. WHAT DOES ARTISTIC MERIT EVER HAVE TO DO WITH PAYING FOR A VILE CRIME?

[arathesane.livejournal.com]

I know, it really gets to me that people are acting like he has been persecuted for all of these years! He has been living extremely well! And he had affairs with more than one teen-aged girl in Europe. Amazing, how that also gets overlooked in their defense of him.

I wonder how many of those who signed the petition have daughters and how would they feel if their child was assaulted by a "great artist" and defended by hundreds solely because of his status!

[mishane.livejournal.com]

So I tortured myself and read that link and UGH am now stressed by how upset I am. There was actually a nimrod on that post that said, "Well, if he's sorry for what he's done and realizes it was wrong, why does he have to serve time?". $%@@#($#@(@#$(@#$( Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME???!?!

Yeah, Judge, I'm sorry. I raped a girl. I feel really bad. Can I go now?

UGH. I really. I just can't. I can't believe the wool people are pulling over their eyes on this man, not just general public but film directors, people in Hollywood! Seriously, it makes me angry beyond belief. These people have kids themselves, daughters and sons. If someone drug, raped, SODOMIZED their kids, would it be a 'case of morals'? FUCK NO it would be rape! The fact that they are defending this creep is just beyond me.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Seriously. It cannot get much worse than child rape. It cannot. How anyone can defend him is beyond me. It's one thing if he claimed he didn't do it and people believed him and defended him because of that. Fine. But he did not deny it, just...argh grrr what the hell.

[bennet-7.livejournal.com]

I will sign a petition to the effect of: Fuck you Roman Polanski. Go straight to jail.

Just point me in the right direction.

You know, I'm used to the film industry and artists in general thinking they're superior and that we should make allowances for their genius. But this I can not stand. I seriously hope that someone prominent steps up - because god knows they aren't going to listen to us regular folk - and leads the backlash against this fuckery. I've been reading a lot over at the Huffington Post and the comments on posts like this and this and this are doing a little to restore my faith in humanity.

Have you seen this? Whoopi Goldberg has a whacked definition of rape.

I'm really losing respect for just a whole bunch of people.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

The Huffington Post reply people seem to be sane. I so agreed with this: "Polanski is a great artist. No question. So what? He has suffered in his early life beyond imagining. That can be taken into consideration by the judge WHEN HE MANS UP AND FACES JUSTICE."

Just. NO WORDS.

[eccequambonum.livejournal.com]

i do not understand Hollywoods view of this. If this was some average joe out there who, say, as a teacher, decided to have sex with a 13 year old student, consensual or not (because hello, what 13 year old can really consent -- and i'm leaving out the liquor and qualudes right now for this example), we would be UP IN ARMS in the media about this SICK PEDOPHILE.

same situation, but add in some drugs. and the guy makes good films. sorry, but in my book, he is still a SICK PEDOPHILE. not only that, a chicken SICK PEDOPHILE, who after getting the most sickening deal cut ever to get him no jail time, he flees the country because he THINKS the judge MIGHT overturn it.

ASSHOLE. CREEP. and all who defend him are the same.

i can't even stand the media on this one. saw some clip of Whoopi Goldberg (who, ugh, ::barf:: already) is DEFENDING him on her talk show saying "it wasn't RAPE RAPE." really?? there is another kind of rape that is okay? with a 13 year old?

i have a sudden disrespect and loathing for all in Hollywood who defend this scum bag.

thank you for letting me rant...

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It's just - child rapist. You cannot go any lower than that. There can be conceivable excuses for murder, robbery, theft. There can be no excuse for child rape.

As to Whoopi? UGHSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP.

All of a sudden, I have even more love for Kevin Smith who is one of the very few (!!!) who said it was not OK.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

Are these people defending him really *thinking* about *what* they're defending?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think it's a knee-jerk thing. UGH.

[fivil.livejournal.com]

Totally agreed. This is just so bloody simple; you do the crime, you do the time. And especially when the crime is something as despicable as this. Like I don't particularly care about people smoking pot - if the charge was a minor drug charge, I might be like, hey, whatever, he's only hurting himself, let's sign this shit.

But this was a crime with a definite victim, who wants to put it past her (and I can't get over how this must be for her and her family; a man who raped her is out there and everybody in the world knows but nobody can do anything about it). I also feel bad because this stupid petition is bringing her case back to headlines - she must be so sick of dealing with it on all accounts.

I'm not particularly blaming Hollywood for this, though, I saw on some post that most of the names were French who I don't recognize at all.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I love so many people on that list - Kundera, Rushdie, Scorcese, WKW, Fanny Ardant, Isabelle Adjani, Isabelle Huppert, Mike Nichols, Stephen Frears. ARGHWHY.

[beardoggx.livejournal.com]

Agreed 100%.

As far as everyone defending Polanski:

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

That gif is AWESOME.

[kitkat-cat.livejournal.com]

Finally, someone sees sense!

When the news came out, my first reaction was 'About bloody time too!' I do not take away any of his artistic achievements, and hell yes, i do love his films, but child rape??? how is paedophilia reviled amongst the masses but someone, excused, accepted, hushed up and explained away when the perpetrator is someone famous or important!? One rule for some, and another rule for others.

It's not just the Hollywood community, the scientific community is also guilty of this behaviour, though I cant remember the name of the scientist. It did make me really angry to be a part of the academic community when i found out about it.

The saddest thing about this whole thing is that people are so blind, so accepting and so quick to forgive because (1) it happened a long time ago and (2) the person has contributed in someway to the world. Frankly, i think the outrage has been prompted by the attitude of 'how DARE they do this to one of us!?'

EURGH!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes - it's the elitism, of a 'it doesn't apply to us' sort.

ARGH.

[sodahands.livejournal.com]

Y'know at least half the people on this list have daughters so I'd really like to see them let good ole Uncle Roman babysit them.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

LOLOLOL.

It just - how on earth. How. I still think Salman Rushdie, Scorcese etc are frelling geniuses but as a person???? HOW??????

[katranna.livejournal.com]

I just wanna say there's a fairly large liberal contigent that's as disgusted as you are. I don't think it's a case of liberal hypocrisy here so much as entitled rich people hypocrisy. They LIKED Polanski! He's their friend! He makes movies they like! Sure, he raped a 13 year old back in the 70s, but that's small potatoes now! That sort of thing surely shouldn't apply to One Of Their Own.

This just smacks of country club good old boy atmosphere, just with a different setting.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yeah - that's why I said hypocricy is universal. Once you hit a certain power/wealth threshhold, you begin to think laws are for little people.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I've decided to swear off anything remotely connected to reality for the day. Uhm, except bills.

It's better that way. (And I'm reading about this one just after the last fiasco to hit my corner of the internet-which included all the ways women rape poor, defenseless men-is starting to die down)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

It was so nice to find out women and children aren't people and have no wills of their own.

[arathesane.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's that petition that let me to post about Polanski yesterday. Appalling and absurd. And it is filled with people I used to admire! I mean I still appreciate their works, but why would anyone sign such a thing!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't see the petition earlier. It's their 'case of morals' that got me. I wouldn't have even been as enraged if they claimed he is an artist who contributed so much to the world he gets a free pass. I would never agree but I would not go as rabid. But to call child rape something those weird puritans thought up as a fake offense?????

[cranberrysheep.livejournal.com]

How could any sane person think it would be a good idea to sign that petition? In what world is child rape OK?

W.T.F.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Just - no words.

[greycoupon.livejournal.com]

I read a piece of the quoted transcript from the police talking to the victim right after the rape happened.

SHE CALLED ORAL SEX BY THE WRONG NAME! It's horrfying! He raped a child and should be punished for that. I don't care if the victim changed her mind or how awesome his movies are.

HE RAPED A CHILD. HE RAPED A CHILD. HE RAPED A CHILD.

Politics have nothing do with any of this. His supporters aren't backing him because they are liberal. They are backing him because THEY ARE MORONS.

Or in the case of Woody Allen, because he is a member of the same club.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

His supporters aren't backing him because they are liberal.

I agree - I think they are backing him (at least those who signed the petition) because they are all members of the same "we are famous and important" club. It's not a left, right, or in-between thing at all - it's an "he is a member of our special treehouse of awesomeness" thing - only they aren't kids, they should know better.

I just find it pretty depressing that whatever one's social or political stance, once you reach a certain level of privilege, you begin to believe laws don't apply to you and those like you.

[blushingsigh.livejournal.com]

I was reading about this on mardia's blog and I didn't comment because I was so stunned. And effing word to every damn thing you said. A person's body of art has nothing to do what they are like as a person and HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU OVERLOOK PEDOPHILIA AND RAPE? It's beyond vile.
look at all those major liberals, who claim they have so much respect for women's rights etc - yeah, yeah, it all applies until it's one of their own
You're awesome for putting that into words.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Just - how does his being an artist has anything to do with this?

Yes - no matter your politics or social views, once it hits close to home, plenty of people close ranks. Which is awful, IMO.

[plazmah.livejournal.com]

For all that Hollywood professes to be progressive, they're more fauxgressive when it comes to one of their own getting in trouble. This entire petition matter has me so disappointed in a lot of people I otherwise respect like Whoopi and Tilda Swinton and Mindi Kaling who are just NOT GETTING IT.

I am on Twitter trying to trend the tag #jailpolanski ugh.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, their clubby metality trumps anything else. UGH.

[thinking-lotus.livejournal.com]

It's all so depressing. I don't see how anyone can read the victim's testimony and think what he did was OK. If they do, they are deluding themselves.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Just - how can any sane person think what he did is OK. How?

*High Fives dangermousie*

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

I posted a long screed like yours on another community. What's at the core of this whole circling-of-the-wagons around Polanski is the idea that some people are too important for "the rules." If it were Father Polanski molesting a boy 45 years ago, nobody would put up a petition to defend him or say that it wasn't "rape-rape.

I've read the victim's statements on what happened. This California taxpayer would be very happy to contribute to nailing this old pervert. As for Hollywood, shame on them all (Woody Allen was of course one of the first guys to support Polanski). Their support for this man disgusts and sickens me. Either they're cool with the rape of a middle schooler or they don't care because it wasn't their daughter. And I have to wonder how many of those signers have "interesting" photos on their computers or have made some hush-hush trips to Thailand. The rest are simply trying to do what the "cool kids" are doing.

Re: *High Fives dangermousie*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

it were Father Polanski molesting a boy 45 years ago, nobody would put up a petition to defend him or say that it wasn't "rape-rape

Exactly.

Just because he is famous and talented should not exempt him from the rules.

And definitely agreed on skeletons in others' closets - especially from what I've read of 1970s Hollywood.

[stillingfleet.livejournal.com]

AGREE AND THANK YOU FOR THIS. i don't CARE what he did as an artist - he should be punished for what he did, fullstop. a crime is a crime is a crime, and definitely, no one should be above it.

and i absolutely agree on the hypocrisy point as well. did you read the article put up by the la times though (i'm not sure who the author is, the straits times in singapore just credited the paper)? it mentioned that apparently, certain legal experts have been lobbying for polanski to be let off as well. i was really ?? about that because i can't understand on what legal model or thinking with regards to crime that that would be justified.

(i'm horrified that wong kar wai signed it too. seriously disappointing.)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Just. What on earth. And I've seen people say she 'deserved it' because her mother might have been sleazy. What????

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

Morals is apparently something the wealthy and powerful don't need to have. Nor a sense of decency. It's like looking into some revolting alternative reality where people have no grasp on right and wrong.