BSG 2.07 thoughts

[dangermousie]

Since they are spoilery by nature, they are behind the cut.

All I will say outside the cut is that this is universes better than the Swiss Cheese of Plot Holes that was "The Farm."



I found it interesting how this ep emphasized Adama's role as paterfamilias. I wonder if he views his ship as a family in a very real sense as a compensation/substitution for his real family where he screwed things up (he was divorced, with at least one son very distant from him. You don't accuse the father you love and are close to of the death of your sibling. There have to be all sorts of other issues there first), or whether his marriage fell apart because the wife felt that he really was dividing his "family time" with the ship.

I also enjoyed seeing Adama in denial about Lee. Telling the new CAG (who is hot but incompetent and thus will now be referred to as HBI) that he loves everyone on this ship the way he loves his son? Somehow I don't believe you, Adama. Could it be that you could barely get the words out? Or that you kept looking at Lee and Zak picture as a kid?Hmmmmm.

I also enjoyed seeing how good a CAG Lee really was. HBI was a disaster. "He is no Lee" indeed. I love how Tigh, who probably hates Lee's guts in a very thorough manner thinks Lee is extremely competent. Adama never acknowledged it before, and certainly took it for granted, but his son was apparently a heck of a leader for a position for which he was not yet qualified or trained. Lee, come back. I miss your fights with Adama. Plus, you don't get people stupidly almost killed.

And now we get to the other strand of the plot: the Kobol one.

First off, I loved seeing Zarek and Ugly Boy scheming to stage a little coup of their own. Of course. There is definitely a problem when your "loyal" crew is composed of mutineers. What's to prevent them from rebelling again as clearly loyalty isn't their prevaling characteristic.

On Lee and Kara front, I loved seeing the delight on his face (even though he was in the background) when her voice came over the comms. He looked like a little kid who couldn't believe his ears. And then they just hold and hug without any hesititation, despite their bad blood months earlier. And he kisses her, almost unconsciously and she has no idea how to react, and he is as startled as she.

Of course, this beeing Lee and Kara they have another fight a few hours later (with "thanks for bringing home the trash") but later they do talk and he teases her about her Pyramid ball and they ac like they are 10 and Apollo actually tells her that he is her friend and will listen and even though she won't open up, this is exactly what she needs, knowing there is someone rock-steady there for her.

The thing is, I am still not a L/K shipper, not even after all of that. There is still too much of loving bratty sibling vibe in their "You love me" exchange. There is some attraction there, surely, but I am not ready to get on the badwagon yet.

This brings me to the ship where I am much closer to getting on the bandwagon: the Helo/Boomer one.

Poor Helo, his travails have only began. I love the Apollo/Helo standoff. I love the fact that Lee won't move his gun even if there is a gun pointed at his own head (and I love the look of murder on his face when he sees Boomer), and I love the fact that Helo is so alpha and unhestitating as well and so ready to protect Sharon no matter what. The whole thing is just plain hot (I foresee Helo/Apollo slash in the future, LOL). Of course, Roslin breaks it up and I love how ruthless she can be (promising Sharon safety to get Helo to put his gun down and then ordering her thrown out of the airlock). And I love Helo struggling as much as he can. And his visit to the brig and how tender he is with her. Though he is not very bright if he thought they'd get much better reception even if another Boomer didn't shoot Adama. Come on, she is a Cylon. I also find fascinating that Sharon is still a Cylon. She loves Helo and their baby (even Roslin acknowledges that, and she tests that by telling her she will kill Helo if Boomer wont do what she wants and Boomer complies), but she still thinks humans as a species is useless and alien (but that is true for Helo's view of Cylons as well). Despite that she saves the day on Kobol. She doesn't want to be caught by the Cylons, or have Helo die. I don't think she cares any for the rest of the party, which is perfectly understandable to me.

I also find it interesting that Roslin thinks Boomer is programmed to love Helo, because we enter into a really tough philosophical realm there. Boomer is clearly not programmed explicitly to love Helo. She didn't at first, and the other Boomer had a thing for Tyrol, not Helo, and we don't see Helo being followed by a harem of Boomers. This Boomer fell in love with Helo, because they were stuck together and she knew him, and he was decent and kind and loved her and was hot. Her programming might have predisposed her to fall for a guy like that, but how is it different from a human woman whose upbringing or other factors predispose her to fall for a particular kind of guy (a good guy who is nice to her). I think as long as she wasn't programmed to love explicitly Helo, there is free will and that love is as real as any love can be.

Comments

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

despite their bad blood months earlier

Months for us; no more than a couple weeks for them ...

And I would buy into the Boomer/Helo romance except that she echoes Six in the things she says to him, and like Six, she's insidiously separating "us" (Helo/Boomer/Baby) from "them" (Helo's friends/comrades/the humans) - I think she will defend HELO and her baby from anything, but I'm really not sure anyone should trust her if Helo's life isn't on the line. And that brings me to, yes, her love is real, but I wouldn't bet that her supposed 'conversion' to the humanside is ;)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, I keep forgetting the time difference.

And I agree with you on Boomer. Of course she has no loyalty to any other human other than Helo (and the baby). She's been brought up to think humans are useless, and so far they haven't been exactly a welcoming committee (understandable of course, but unlikely to change her mind). I don't think she is really converted to a human side, or even pretends to be. She loves Helo and whichever side offers better safety and happiness for Helo, she will go with. Which I think is definitely proof of love.

But I think she wants Helo to get what he wants, i.e. to be with humans. And she wants to be free from Cylon control. Otherwise she never would have run from her handlers in S1, as Helo and she would have certainly had a cushy time on Caprica together. She loves him, and she wants to be free with him, outside of the "either or" situation.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

She loves him, and she wants to be free with him, outside of the "either or" situation.

I can't quite come to the point where I can totally believe that - what if she wants to "convert" Helo, as Six does Baltar? There are just so many parallels in the way that the Helo/Boomer, Six/Baltar conversations went in this past episode!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, but then why didn't she stay with him on Caprica in a love nest?

Of course she prefers Cylons, that is how she was raised. And I think she'd be delighted if he chose them of his own free will. But I don't think she is a Six-level manipulator.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Heh! I don't know, that's all I'm saying. I still don't completely trust her and I think the reservations they all have about her are perfectly justified...

Yes, but then why didn't she stay with him on Caprica in a love nest?

Because he isn't convinced yet?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it's not as if she talked it over with Six and said "my plan is better, let's do X instead." She really went on the run.

I can certainly see twists in that relationship in the future though.

[shadowserenity.livejournal.com]

Here's an interesting quote that I think is relevant to this discussion:

Caprica Boomer: You got a better explanation?
Helo: You think the Cylons could be messing with human D.N.A.? Cloning people or something?
Caprica Boomer: Could be.
Helo: That would explain how they took us by surprise. They had these replicated humans infiltrating the colonies laying the groundwork for a surprise attack.
Caprica Boomer: You know, if they were human clones that means they're capable of-- of complex emotions, maybe even love. Maybe they were misguided in the way they were indoctrinated, but—

She may have been raised with the Cylons, but I don't think she's stupid. Why would she say "misguided"?

And I just compared Sharon and Six in my ep recap. We're thinking the same thing!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

True. I do think she thinks Cylons are wrong to do what they are doing.

I think both Baltar's Six and Boomer are off the reservation, so to speak.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

See, that's the bizarre thing with Lee/Kara. I like them both as characters and they're both gorgeous people, but I honestly don't care whether they're together or not. Maybe it's just too obvious that they're going to have one of those up down love you love you not relationships, or maybe it's just the fact that the interpersonal relationships of the entire crew are more interesting than the romance. Whatever it is, I actually sort of like them more when there's just a little tension and a lot of snark.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Eeeee, icon!

And I agree with you. I don't care if they go off and fall madly in love with others. I like them because of the friend vibe, not a romance one. Maybe because I am not sensing love from them, not yet.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Frankly I think Apollo just needs to go get some because he seems to be the only person who isn't. Poor guy, no wonder he acts all repressed.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

There is a community shagthecag which is apparently dedicated to the idea :)

[repr0b8.livejournal.com]

I also find fascinating that Sharon is still a Cylon.

Yeah, it's really interesting seeing the differences in her behaviour now that she no longer needs to pretend to be human. The scene where she is telling Helo "They're Human, the way you are", she smiles and holds his hand, but the cylon edge is there.

but she still thinks humans as a species is useless and alien

I actually think this may be an improvement. It seems most of the Cylons simply want to destroy humanity. She on the other hand, appears to be indifferent. At this point both Humans and Cylons are the enemy to her. But the her one true love is a human. His happiness is important to her, and by default I think that puts her in the "good guy" column.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

the cylon edge is there

And that is what makes it interesting, not just a cliche star-crossed lovers type story.

His happiness is important to her, and by default I think that puts her in the "good guy" column.


Agreed. Boomer is capable of real love, and I don't think that many other Cylons are.

[lesbiassparrow.livejournal.com]

On Adama as paterfamalias (which is a really interesting comment)...I wonder now if we'll see a difference with the fleet now that he has accepted them as family? Will he think more of the fleet as a unit and less of them as Galactica plus a bunch of hangers on.

As for Boomer; I still (sniffle) prefer her in her tragic Galactica incarnation. (I think that's because I prefered Tyrol to Helo, though.) I wasn't surprised by Roslin or the other hostile reactions - even if GalacticaBoomer hadn't shot Adama, I know I wouldn't be exactly welcoming to the species that had wiped out 99.999% of my species. Even if other people vouched for her. And if I thought she was a clone of someone real that I liked I think I'd freak out even more, not less. I don't know about the programming and it's limits really - Galactica Boomer broke hers a few times (I think that's what happened on the basestar - I don't think the cylons wanted her to do that, though I could be wrong) but she still succumbed in the end. And that's what makes Boomer interesting to me; how awful to be forced to do things you desperately don't want to do.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I felt bad for Galactica Boomer too, but I prefer the Caprica one, because she seems more self-aware and in control. But we'll see how that turns out.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I also enjoyed seeing how good a CAG Lee really was. HBI was a disaster. "He is no Lee" indeed. I love how Tigh, who probably hates Lee's guts in a very thorough manner thinks Lee is extremely competent. Adama never acknowledged it before, and certainly took it for granted, but his son was apparently a heck of a leader for a position for which he was not yet qualified or trained.

I loved how Mr You'e Not Fit To Wear The Uniform is suddenly lamenting the loss of Lee as CAG. Both TIgh and Adama can't seem to fathom how he could follow his conscience rather than military dictates, but maybe it's that kind of thinking that made him good at his job. However, I think having poor George not being able to dock a ship was taking it a step too far. How did he ever make it to Lt?

I'm suspicious that the reason Lee was so willing to follow Laura's orders (I expected a bit of an argument - he has disagreed with her before) to lower his gun was because he knew what she would order be done. I just love how in tune those two are with each other and it seems people are catching on to them becoming quite the power couple.

I am a L/L shipper, yet I loved the L/K interaction. They are quite wonderful together. And while I do think they could become romantically involved down the road, there is too much baggage to deal with right now. Kara, especially, seems unwilling to open up. I'd hazard to guess Lee doesn't even know about her childhood abuse let alone what happened on Caprica. But, they have a very loving friendship (I'm so glad he said the words - she needed to hear them) and that's what each needs more than anything right now.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

there is too much baggage to deal with right now

Absolutely. I don't think they really understand each other as well as Lee and Laura do (and I am not a L/L shipper). And yes, poor George was a disaster :)

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

Kara, especially, seems unwilling to open up.

Absolutely! And that's one of the things that had made me, even though I am firmly a Helo/Sharon shipper, a Helo/Kara shipper as well. The way she *did* trust him enough in VoD to open up to him about how everyone is fighting for a reason but she's just fighting 'cause it's all she knows. That was the thing, for me, that really screamed out that Helo and Kara have some history of their own, whether it's romantic or just friends (like Kara and Lee).

[kaseido.livejournal.com]

Lots of great stuff!

There is definitely a problem when your "loyal" crew is composed of mutineers.

Excellent point. If Roslin were to continue on independently, she'd have to start seriously busting heads to establish her authority. She could do it. With the fleet reunited, it's going to get a lot more complicated: If Adama acts against her supporters, even/especially the ones doublecrossing her, it's going to look like retaliation. And his legitimacy among all the civilians now has to be right about zero.

A lot depends on who makes it back alive from Kobol next week, though-

This is going to be the longest week ever!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

If Adama acts against her supporters, even/especially the ones doublecrossing her, it's going to look like retaliation. And his legitimacy among all the civilians now has to be right about zero.


With her supporters, to get back any legitimacy, Adama would have to kowtow to Roslin and follow her agenda but I just don't see this.

OTOH, if all she gets at the temple are some coordinates, than I don't see a problem following them as much, because hey, they are drifting aimlessly anyway.

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

I just loved this episode. There were so very many good things about it that I'm not even seeing the bad yet, even though I do seem to recall a thing or two that made me do that head-tilt thing. Not nearly as many times as in the Farm, though (and I *liked* the Farm, dammit).

I just can't wait to see next week's ep to see how things play out. I worry, you know. *bites nails*

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, we'll see >)

And yeah, better than the Farm.

[technosage.livejournal.com]

I also find it interesting that Roslin thinks Boomer is programmed to love Helo, because we enter into a really tough philosophical realm there. Boomer is clearly not programmed explicitly to love Helo. She didn't at first, and the other Boomer had a thing for Tyrol, not Helo, and we don't see Helo being followed by a harem of Boomers. This Boomer fell in love with Helo, because they were stuck together and she knew him, and he was decent and kind and loved her and was hot. Her programming might have predisposed her to fall for a guy like that, but how is it different from a human woman whose upbringing or other factors predispose her to fall for a particular kind of guy (a good guy who is nice to her). I think as long as she wasn't programmed to love explicitly Helo, there is free will and that love is as real as any love can be.

Superb point, about her not being programmed specifically to love Helo. Although...

The Sharon model isn't programmed specifically to love Helo. G-Boomer loved The Chief, not C-Boomer. C-Boomer, since, so far as we know, they've never switched places, only has ever loved Helo.

But the point holds that Sharon and Six are programmed to seek love. Who they seek it with may be a matter of choice and environment. I'm with queenofthorns in that I don't trust Sharon -- but not necessarily because I think she's consciously working an agenda (well, she is, but we're seeing that one -- separate Helo from the group so that he'll become loyal to her and protect her and baby) so much as that she's a Cylon. Even if she's fighting off her programming now, like we see G-Boomer do in "Water", she may not be able to fight it off forever.

OTOH, it's fascinating that the Old Man raises this same issue? What is love but thinking you're in love. Sharon thinks she loves Helo. No matter how little she understands that concept and no matter how wrongly it causes her to act, for her, that love is real. Does that pull her fangs? Boy howdy no. Does it make her more sympathetic? IMO? Oh yes.

Anyhow, nice assessment. Interesting! Thanks. :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Does that pull her fangs? Boy howdy no. Does it make her more sympathetic? IMO? Oh yes

Oh yes. That sums it up in a nutshell!

[technosage.livejournal.com]

Damn but she was fabulous in this last episode, no?