When a man does it, it's woobiefying. When a woman does it, she's a bitch. Ahhh, fandom!

[dangermousie]

I am not one to cry "double standard" very often, but why are people not cutting Kyung Ah (a major female character in Slingshot) the same slack they would cut a male character in the same circumstances?

I've seen that above attitude before. It always crops up when the heroine is cynical, morally grey, and not falling over herself to be redeemed by the hero no matter how much cause she has to be this way (see Lobbyist and people's Maria hate).

Men are allowed to get cynical and elitist and bitter if they had a screwed-up life and fandom jumps all over them and proclaims them as woobies. But Kyung Ah is totally unworthy of our hero because in an untenable situation she basically sold herself into sexual slavery but ended up being really good at her "chosen" profession and instead of allowing herself to continue a victim, seized the opportunity and became powerful and valuable within that world. And she actually doesn't repent hourly but enjoys the money and luxury that comes with it.

Gee, I wonder if it's weird her life made her hard-as-nails and cynical? The latest entrant in the "Kyung Ah sucks" attitude is the reaction I've seen to her telling the hero (who is her ex-boyfriend, actually) to back away from his revenge scheme against the antagonist because he doesn't belong in the rich/powerful world. Oooooooh, she is condescending and elitist! Really? Or maybe she is just trying to protect someone she still has lingering feelings for? The antagonist (who is her current sugar daddy, actually) is plenty capable and ruthless. Also, I can't say her entry into that world (as a sex toy to the rich and powerful, oooooooh, enviable!) was something to be considered pleasant and something she'd recommend to others.

But you know what? Even if all of this was not the case and she really just said it because she is now elitist? Guess what? I don't care! She has certainly earned the right to be bitter and dark!

I hasten to add these are people's reactions to the drama, not the drama's view of Kyung Ah in the least. That is why I love the writer. Yes, you know, women can be allowed to be more messed-up or darker then the men. Thank you!

Comments

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I love Kyun Ah and I am totally shipping her with the evil guy who is totally sexier than protagonist (go away, you wanna-be whiny rapist. I still rememebr this!).

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

The evil guy freaks me out - I quite hate him, I confess, even if the actor is goodlooking.

go away, you wanna-be whiny rapist. I still rememebr this!

ahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Will poor Park Yon Ha ever live down Winter Sonata? LOLOLOL. (His character there really was about the worst other guy, much as I adore his character in Slingshot)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

The evil guy freaks me out - I quite hate him, I confess, even if the actor is goodlooking.

Have you seen him laying on her bosom already?

Will poor Park Yon Ha ever live down Winter Sonata?

Not for me. The change of haircut alone will not make me forget THAT.

I think I am actually more about the main girl in this drama than about men. And secondary OTP - I also ship Lee Philip with the sister , like mad.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Have you seen him laying on her bosom already?


You do not want to know where my mind went :D

Not for me. The change of haircut alone will not make me forget THAT.


LOL! But it's change of haircut + use of skin cream + loss of a lot of weight + major gym time. Here:



Aren't you even a little tempted? :)

I also ship Lee Philip with the sister , like mad.

Poor girl deserves a hot cursed warlord after having to live with Mr. Psycho :)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

LOL! But it's change of haircut + use of skin cream + loss of a lot of weight + major gym time. Here:

All I can think is that with all the gym time gone to waste.

You do not want to know where my mind went :D

I think - stabbing? But of course - the main girl will love the main guy, blah blah blah. The evil guy will have the stabbing, I wish something went differently at least once!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think - stabbing?

LOL, no, just to the gutter :) I don't mind evil guy having fun before his ultimate demise.

The evil guy will have the stabbing, I wish something went differently at least once!


But that is why I like dramas! Because they make me think of novels with a set beginning and an end and structure. I have no idea if main guy/girl will end up together: one of them might die, frex, or it could end up hopeful but open-ended on that front, like Resurrection, or there is even a teeny chance it could just end up not working because of screwed-upness (the writer's previous Sandglass). But I like that if the main couple are set up by a story to be an OTP, they will continue to develop it, not just jump randomly all over the place from ship to ship the way American shows do to keep the ratings. Now, the story could easily have been about a woman who forgets her ex and develops a true love relationship with a damaged businessman if they wrote it that way. But then the main guy would be evil guy and we'd know that is the main relationship focus...so it would still be (different) main guy getting main girl. I don't think it's a flaw, I think it speaks to a story having structure. A story can have many types of main guys or gals but I like that in a drama when some couple ends up together it doesn't go against previous story development where I am all "why why why?" the way it can be with US shows.

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

LOL, no, just to the gutter

Actually, now that you are mention it, I think that in the world of Korean dramas they totally had oral sex.

Hee! I completely understand (and these are the reasons I am cross with HYD - The Prince wasn't given as an evil guy at first. Not just in 1-2 eps, in more than a half he seemed like a pretty decent human being. Why was he turned into an evil monster? Why?)

Generally these are the reasons I watch dramas for too. But there is sometimes a downside for it. I seem to be cursed with shipping non-OTP ships recently. This must be the commeuppance for the times I said that I am a strictly canon shipper. It hurts to know that no matter what happens your OTP will not end up together. :(

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I don't even mind if they do character change over time, the way longer period kdramas seem to (e.g. Jumong's decent foster father becoming a horrible monster) if it's well-developed and explained. In a lot of US tv it seems to be so thrown together last minute.

these are the reasons I am cross with HYD - The Prince wasn't given as an evil guy at first. Not just in 1-2 eps, in more than a half he seemed like a pretty decent human being. Why was he turned into an evil monster? Why

I was trying to remember a prince in Hana Yori Dango and failing miserably and then realized you meant Hong Gil Dong :D I didn't have a problem with how he ended up in HGD but then I never liked him from the start and thought his character was far from nice. But I am sure I said it before :)

I don't think I've ever shipped an uncanon couple in a drama, except in Korean Boys Over Flowers for a bit (and then I ended up disliking the heroine so much, I was fine with her being with the hero who I disliked equally, so not sure what category of shipping this falls under :D) The few times I've come across dramas where I'd dislike one of the main OTP super-much, I'd not watch: if I don't like the story the drama is telling, I can't stick with it (see Bull Fighting).

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

** laughs ** I am burning HYD for someone -this shows, right?

The few times I've come across dramas where I'd dislike one of the main OTP super-much, I'd not watch: if I don't like the story the drama is telling, I can't stick with it (see Bull Fighting).

It is the same for me too - there are so many good things to watch, you doesn't have to finish what you don't like. Most often I just forwind things very quickly, for completeness sake.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I couldn't even forward Bullfighting, aka the drama with the worst heroine ever. I ended up slashing main and secondary guy just because the thought of them both pining over female monster was unpleasant - secondary guy was definitely better off than the hero because he didn't get the girl (got his own otp later, actually). A pity, because on paper the story was so much my thing.

Just like I won't ever watch Knock Knock Loving You because just thinking of the hero gives me rage :)

[darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com]

WHY ARE YOU NOT WATCHING SPRING WALTZ

DEMAND

DEMAND

DEMAND

AM THROUGH EP TEN AND IF IT GETS ANY BETTER I'M GOING TO HURT MYSELF

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Am somewhere where I cannot watch dvds. So must wait till evening. Ahhhhhh, the agony the agony. Tell me good bits, please??? Spoiiiiil!

[darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com]

THEYKISSEDTHEYKISSEDTHEYKISSED!!! They have several eps of adorable dating stuff, Jae Ha doing really romantic things for her (I cannot wait to see you explode about some of them), but then he and Phillip have a heart-to-heart and Phillip talks about how much he's fallen in love with her, so Jae Ha is torn apart by angst and breaks down IN A CONFESSIONAL because "I can't control my heart" yet he doesn't want to betray his best and only friend. He's really mean to Eun Young afterwards, he says some really cruel things to push her away and it makes her cry, but then he has a change of heart and turns back and dips down and KISSES HER!!!!!!!

Do you want caps? I can show you caps. omg omg omg omg

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

CAPSCAPSCAPSCAPSCAPS

[darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com]

Pretty angst:





Eun Young crying after he yells at her, and he listens outside the door and hates himself:









She confronts him outside and SLAPS HIM:



He says more cruel things and tries to walk away:





BUT HE CAN'T:







SO HE KISSES HER:





AND THEN KISSES HER AGAIN:

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh GOD.

Why can't I watch this right now????????????????????????????

[darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com]

Oh god. Mousie, I'm through ep 11 and no one understands my obsession but you. There's this scene where they're walking hand in hand and smiling so happily and the damn music is playing and I thought my heart would BURST. WHY ARE THEY SO PERFECT? WHY IS EVERYTHING SO GOOD?

[sisterjune.livejournal.com]

I confess to not having watched the slingshot yet (though your posts on it are certainly making me consider it!) but I totally agree with all of this and you can totally apply it to any other show/book/etc that has a female character who is not a sweet innocent pure hearted female who heals the male hero with her kindness and caring and endless patience for his angst/douchebaggery w/e. I've seen it happen so many times. I mean Veronica mars (dunno if you've watched this), she was a cynical hard as nails girl but she still tried her damnedest to HELP people and put herself in danger for the sake of others many times. YET because she can be sharp with her words sometimes people called her a bitch and completely unlikeable, while everyone just LOOOVED logan who did things that are 3 times as horrible as anything she's ever done. Though I do maintain she was unfair to him on several occasions but I hardly take that as a reason to DESPISE her. It's like WTF the girl suffered so much at the hands of others, her bff was MURDERED, and she's the protagonist of the story! Just I will never forget the complete vitriol some people regarded veronica with, people who were otherwise seemingly sane and normal! It's absolutely an appalling double standard towards women. and honestly its tiring for me sometimes, I just see it in every fandom, always this minor but very vocal group of people who have a thing with most if not all of the women in any given show or drama. The saddest part is most of the time these are other women doing all the mud slinging. I'm honestly tired of toothless female characters without even te slightest edge to them, because honestly I cant relate with them at all. It's my issue with jdrama women most of the time cause they tend to be like emotional children or cutesy little girls or pure and endlessly good natured, it's just kind of gross. and dont even get me started on how whenever a even partially competent woman shows up in a show, there will be someone sounding the "mary sue" bells. -_- ugh fandom. /feminist rant

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, so agree with every word. And yeah, I remember Veronica. I thought she was rather hard on Logan in S3, but seriously cut the girl some slack, she had major major issues!!!!!

I don't want to watch a minor saint - I want a real woman.

[mishane.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I have to cut in but I completely agree with you about the whole Veronica Mars thing.

And the thing that annoyed me is that the people in fandom that hated her so much, were these women who claimed to be the biggest feminists, and yet the reason they were bashing her was because of how she treated Logan! Now I understand that the definition of feminist has been blurred throughout the past decades, but that always rubbed me the wrong way. Here we have this great female character, and yeah she has flaws (who doesn't!??!) but she stayed strong and stuck with her beliefs, and you're getting all up in her face because she's not treating her boyfriend the way you wanted? I mean, really? (I always said that it was the Logan shippers that ruined that show for me. I mean, I was all for Logan also, but I wasn't a crazy fanatic like some others were).

Ugh, it just annoyed me to no end.

[mishane.livejournal.com]

Didn't read, just skimmed because I've been spoiled by HD and am still waiting for WITHS2 subs. :(

But I'm getting so excited skimming people's reviews on this show and it seems to get great ones!

(Though I haven't seen the episode yet, I'm all for strong, jaded, sometimes mean female characters. I don't like double standards, and I don't see why women can't be jackasses like men are. If a woman is an asshole, she's labeled a bitch, by men and women. If a man is an asshole, he's labeled cool by the men, and sexy to women. So yeah, I dislike double standards and I am always happy when we have a questionable female character, who challenges our regular views of what women are "supposed" to be).

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

So yeah, I dislike double standards and I am always happy when we have a questionable female character, who challenges our regular views of what women are "supposed" to be

I don't get people who hate that. There are plenty of very sweet-natured ladies in dramas. I love them too. But it doesn't mean they are all I want to see!