dangermousie: (Max & Liz)
[personal profile] dangermousie
My Roswell obsession continues, as I spent the evening watching 5 episodes more. Guuuuh. So freaking good. The mixture of angst and romance and cute boys who angst and romance is really doing its fell work on me. As soon as I finish this season, 2 and 3 (yes I know all about the different direction) here I come! Cut for Liz/Max, Michael/Maria and general gushiness.


Liz/Max just continue to sweep me off my feet. I think I am adding it to my all time OTP list. So angsty and mushy and romantic and perfect. Loved that he sees her in slo mo and can't stop looking at her with his heart in his eyes in the UFO convention episode. Loved when he was drunk because she was on a set-up date and "bonded" with Kyle and finally was able to let go of his crazy self-control and express what he really felt, drawing a heart on her balcony with their initials and then him and Liz being in my fave scene in the show so far when they are out on the street and he can finally tell her how he feels because he is drunk and has no inhibitions any more and you can just see how madly and blindly in love he is. He makes the streetlight do a dappled shadow because that is how he feels about her, he makes the car alarm go off because that is how he feels without her, and he keeps meeting all her arguments with just such lovely and loving stuff and then when she says it could never be normal, he starts to walk away and as he goes touches all the meters one by one and they burst into fireworks and he turns around and smiles with that smile that makes me want to pounce him and says "Normal is overrated." Guuuh. Everything he's kept bottled inside comes spilling out and oh boy... And of course later, when he kissed her on stage and then sobered up and the mask went back on and he is so devastated. He is trying to protect her and do the right thing and it's killing him and I love him.

But of course they can't stay away from each other and I love the scene a few episodes later when he does enter her kitchen and can't help himself and next thing you know they are on the table and he is kissing her face, and her neck, and the strawberries are everywhere, and I am going whoa. And when he is kissing her hand under the table (in class, no less) and she pretty much almost orgasms? Wooo, alien loving! And the skipping two periods to neck and making so much noise they get caught? Heee. Boy, can I sympathize. :D He's loved her for ages (and she knows he saw her for ages and loved her), so to finally be able to express it? Guuuh again.

Of course, the scene where he tells her in the girls locker room that he saw inside her and saw her shower fantasy and then tells her he saw how she feels when she sees him and the shock that anyone would feel that way about him. Perfect (I know something horrible is coming next episode. It must).

And then they are in Michael's place and she takes off his shirt (at which point my thought process derails as all I am thinking is: whoa, built! I need to find me an alien) and they almost make love then and there (and then have the the encore during the night in the desert). My inner romantic was totally happy. He is so considerate and concerned about her but it's a good thing they got interrupted, unless they want a little alien bundle of joy. I doubt they have protection because they are both virgins and I doubt she is on the pill.

I love the end when they walk and joke and he tells her he hopes what her destiny would be and jokes about Kyle, and it's great to see Max, who is normally so reserved and stoic and responsible so relaxed and actually happy. I realized I never really saw him happy before. Of course, some really catastrophic thing must be coming. And by angst rules, it's gotta be huge.

I love Max most when he is off-balance and doesn't have his guard up, see above or when the crazy guy wants to kill him because he thinks he is the alien who killed his wife and Max just doesn't get it at first and then freaks out and blows up at the sheriff. Hot.

Maria? Continue to love her and her solution to boy problems (aqua bra, entering Liz into contest, LOL).

I also loved that Michael would say he has no desire to make any impression on Maria's Mom but goes and helps her out anyway with the wrestling thing and of course denies he did it for any altruistic reason.

I did get to the Michael=abused ep and I did feel bad for him. No wonder he thinks there is really nothing useful for him in Roswell and wants to find a real father, and grabs at straws (like the Native American man). He can be quite destructive with his powers, and can't control them, as the scene with Hank showed and I think that really scares him (and I find it lovely that he won't use them to protect himself but he will do so to protect Isabel). He can't heal well at all, though. I love love love LOVE the scene where he has nowhere to go and it's raining and he stands outside Maria's window with this desperate, falling apart look on his face and she says "no, not letting you in" and the next thing you see she is drying him off and he is crying, silently, so she just hugs him and doesn't ask any questions and just makes him go to sleep and they fall asleep all entangled and awwww... Actually I think Michael/Maria is another ship I'll add to my all time list of OTPs. And he won't tell the sheriff where he's been next morning (when his foster dad dissapears) protecting her honor. Double awwww. Because he can't express himself well, and he is scared and bitter and messed up, but underneath it all he is intense and vulnerable and cares deeply.

And of course when they kiss in the closet later to see if it would get Maria the same visions Liz was having and she "fakes" it and then they blow up and tell each other the mutual visions were fake (hers of stars and his being able to see into her head), and she later comes to apologize and he tells her that he really did see inside her and proves it and then he just draws her near into his arm and kisses her on the forehead and it's just perfect (I also love Maria telling him prior to coming in that she needs him not to be cold and mean or tell her he will be in advance, and not as a judgmental thing but as a statement of fact. This girl is very open and forthright). And of course he surprises her with being so tender (which I why I love the character. He keeps on surprising you).

Plus, his snarky sense of humor amuses the heck out of me (e.g. his telling Max to think of mud if he gets too fixated on Liz, or the "go for it, have sex, you know you want to" spiel he gives Max. Heee.)

Favorite quote?
Radio DJ making Liz pick between her arranged date, Max and Kyle:

"Would it be ___ who we've picked for you? Or Kyle, your ex boyfriend? Or Max, who kidnapped you and vandalized your home?"

Basically, love all around!

Date: 2005-08-09 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linaerys.livejournal.com
Wow, you're really making me want to watch this now.

Would you say it is better or worse than Smallville, if you've seen that?

Date: 2005-08-09 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I confess I haven't seen more than four or five eps of Smallville (where I was mightily impressed by Lex :D). From my limited knowledge of Smallville, I like this better, mainly because I found Clark easy on the eyes but dull, and Max reminds me of my husband (only with freaky powers) so I have a huge TV crush on him. I also think it's funnier than what I've seen of Smallville (My husband ended up watching some of it as background noise yesterday, as he was reading in the same room, and found bits of it very funny in a good way.) And unlike Smallville, which by definition of pre-existing canon must have an open ending when it ends (e.g. Clark and Lana? Doomed. Lex? Going to go evil), I looked up the ending of Roswell in advance (didn't want another Buffy on my hands) and found it acceptable and the show having a proper beginning and an end.

But I don't know. Roswell just seems to have hit that romantic "it" for me. I started thinking "oooh, cutely corny" and by now am just going awwwww. It mght or might not do the same for you. Depends on how much you like your angst. It's worth Netflixing, at least. I really all like the eps starting with 4-5 (though Premiere is lovely too), but I am not sure if that's because they are better, or I just got to know the characters more and have more fun with their interactions now.

The eye candy is good though :)

Date: 2005-08-09 01:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linaerys.livejournal.com
Thanks for the info! The reason I ask is that while I enjoy Smallville enough to watch it when it's on and I'm bored (sexy Lexy), I don't go out of my way to watch it. As you say, Clark is dull, and as you didn't say, Lana is an annoying actress. I always thought that I might feel similarly about Roswell. It's going to be interesting to see Max again since he was kinda evil and doomed in S1 Buffy, and then kind of bratty and hot in Dawson's Creek.

I may get this out of Netflix, especially when the weather gets cold and I want to spend all day inside knitting. Thanks for the recs!

Date: 2005-08-09 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Yes, Lana...shudder.

I adore Maria who I have a girl-crush on and I really like Liz mainly because she is a genuinly nice, non-head-games playing girl who wants Max so she makes sure he knows it, and even when they break up she still helps him and likes him etc. I know people like that but you don't oftensee them on TV (the weird thing is, the word that comes to mind when describing both Max and Liz is "decent.")

Yeah, I've seen "Max" on Buffy and it took me an ep or two to get over it :)

P.S.

Date: 2005-08-09 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Another thing I forgot to mention is that I need my shows to have OTPs (that's where Buffy lost me by the end). BSG is an exception, because if L/K or H/B don't ever get together, I will still enjoy it, but generally I don't like OTPless shows. There's no OTP for me on Smallville and there are two on Roswell.

Date: 2005-08-09 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I think it says a lot of good about Anakin/Padme that you still loved them despite the pretty much predefined unhappy ending for them :)

I admit I'm more a "moment" person when it comes to couples. If a couple can produce only one magic moment for me, then they are on my good side. No matter how much it goes down the crapper later. Doesn't mean that I will always love the, just that I'll always have some fond memories. So, even though I don't really like Clark/Lana on Smallville at all, I'll always have some lingering loyalty to it because Clark/Lana produced two of my favourite stories of all times in the comic books (Lost Hearts and Superman For All Seasons). So to me the (few) nice moments of Smallville are more about sacrifice and heroism than about romance. To me they have produced a couple of very nice episodes, but the rest of the series is rather forgettable.

I do wonder what you would think of more current SV, since Lois Lane has shown up :)

Date: 2005-08-09 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
If a couple can produce only one magic moment for me, then they are on my good side. No matter how much it goes down the crapper later

The problem for me is, that is would just wreck the previous moments for me too. Buffy/Angel is a good example. I shipped them like mad but that ship imploded spectacularly and now even while I still enjoy eps like Becoming, it's all tinted with the fact that it didn't go where I thought it should have so what's the point.

Anakin/Padme actually work. It doesn't have to be a HEA. But it's pretty clear they still loved each other, just died and self-destructed. I wouldn't have liked them if e.g. Padme died and Anakin got another wife and was happy with her. Basically, I hate when an OTP is shown not to be that.

since Lois Lane has shown up

Really? Hmmm, might check SV out now.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
Can't promise that you will like Lois (especially since I haven't been watching SV regularly either), but she does look quite spunky and fun. Like I said, I'd be curious to hear what you think of her. She's not everybody's type, though.

Personally, I'm not really into "forever" kind of couples. Don't get me wrong, I like it when my couples stay together forever. But to me, it's just sweeter when they do it without big promises and gestures. So I'm more about the "We are together because we work well together and because we like each other and we'll never regret our time together even when we break up." rather than the "I'll love you forever and our passion will rule the world" kind of couples. If there are no promises for greatness (and more "accidental greatness" a la Maria and Michael) then nobody ends up looking like a dick when those promises don't work out.

I wonder, did you ever watch soap operas? Because I grew up watching them with my aunt. And even though I never truely *liked* them, I can't help but wonder if they didn't influence my "One person can be good with one person and with another person; But it doesn't necessarily take away from what couple #1 used to be." attitude when it comes to tv shows.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Nope, I really dislike soaps for the very reasons you list. And am all about "forever" couples myself :)

I grew up reading all those romantic 19th century novels.

I don't care about a fictional couple if they can survive OK without each other. Because then angst isn't really angst as they will deal, and it's not true love, is it?

then nobody ends up looking like a dick when those promises don't work out

Yes, but I don't like couples where it doesn't work out. I am all about star-crossed, Romeo & Juliet thing myself.

Basically, no it's not real true death-defying love if you break up and move on to someone else. My husband is the only person whom I've ever loved actually (and vice versa) and I intend to spend the rest of my life with him so I think the above isn't a personal preference as much as sort of an emotional world view that is really a basic part of my character (if it makes any sense).

It also ties in to the fact that I like my story to have a clear arc, beginning and an end (probably because I don't watch much TV but am much more into books). And the relationships you talk about don't fit into that kind of story but are in shows (like soaps) that can go ad infinitum.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I guess for me it's that there are so many forever couples that strike me as dysfunctional. Romeo and Juliet? Seriously scary and disturbed twits, who I could never picture working out in a real life relationship/marriage.

Actually I see Mal/Inara as another couple I have a hard time picturing being intersting once they hook up.

For me, (more so in tv shows than in real life) it's just that there are so many nice people out there. So many potential good storylines. You have a character surrounded by different people. You can choose to write a story about him and his childhood love. You can write a story about him and his best friend. About him and the person he protects. About him and his partner and collegue. No matter which one you pick, it's gonna be a good story (even though a wise writer better decide on which one they want, otherwise it could get messy). So writingwise, it's very much flip of the coin for me. It doesn't matter which couple you pick. With honestly good writing you can turn anything in a great story.

And the cruel thing is that deciding for just one love limits the kind of stories you can tell. You start telling the story of childhood friends in love and you find yourself regretting that now you don't have the chance for tell perfect stranger/soulmate love or having a relationship with the bad boy story. I can see how that can make writers greedy, because they want their character to have everything.

And with good writing they will do that as making each relationship take place in different areas, without disturbing or negating each other.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Of course, you can solve the problem by having more than one couple in the show (e.g. Roswell has at least two major OTPs, so they can do different stuff).

Or you can have different shows (e.g. I watch Farscape for by best frelled up friends and soulmates OTP, I watch Kaylee/Simon for sweet potential OTP and Michael/Maria for fight/make-out OTP etc). I don't like the greedy-grabby approach myself, as you are right and it usually results in a mess.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I'm kinda allergic to shows that have a "one person per person"/"everybody gets fixed up with somebody" approach. With everybody being obviously meant for exactly one person inside of the group, with no dating outside of the group. Roswell is one of the few shows where I could buy into it.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Of course, you can bring in an outsider believably (see Oz), but I like shows where the interesting relationships aren't just the romantic ones. I find the Max-Michael-Isabel dynamic really interesting but there is nothing romantic about that one.

When all the relationships are about googly eyes, it gets monotonous.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I like shows where the interesting relationships aren't just the romantic ones.

Me, too. :)

I really want characters to have a variety of important relationships. Not just romantic ones. Or just one all consuming single romantic one.

Then again, I like a lot of procedural shows like CSI, Law and Order, which I think are good even without any romantic involvement. I'm generally procedural type. There are so many shows which I think got ruined by including romance (or rather, clumsily including romance).

Date: 2005-08-09 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I generally tend to stay away from procedural shows because I am all about characters in fiction and for "this is how __ works" I'd rather read a book because impatient :)

Date: 2005-08-09 03:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterspel.livejournal.com
Reading your Roswell reactions makes me smile! I was really into Roswell first season (I got into it toward the end of first season so I had to backtrack quite a bit to catch up, and I was tickled to see Julie Benz around those parts). I love mythology/arc shows. I love unfolding mysteries/conspiracies and character dynamics to sustain it all. This show satisfied a lot of that (at least until the 3rd season where I fell out with a thunk).

You've inspired me to listen to Dido today. ;)

Date: 2005-08-09 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
The funny thing about seeing Julie Benz is that even before we knew about her FBI affiliation, I was sure she was up to no good because she was Darla. Never got over it and was just relieved she wasn't snacking on the students! :)

This show satisfied a lot of that (at least until the 3rd season where I fell out with a thunk).

I've heard some really confusing things on S3 (don't spoil me). I know some people like S2 and not S3 and vice versa (S1 seems to be pretty universally loved). Have no idea what my reaction will be but if I managed to get through S6 and 7 of Buffy and they had no payoff, I'd definitely watch Roswell seeing that I know and like how it ends and get my lovely payoff at the end.

You've inspired me to listen to Dido today.

The theme song keeps running and running and running through my head.

Date: 2005-08-09 03:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] winterspel.livejournal.com
I have a hard time seeing Julie anywhere and not thinking "Darla!"

May I ask for clarification on your disappointment with the end of Buffy? Were you a B/A or a B/S (or something entirely different)? It doesn't matter, there was disappointment all around, I think. I blame Marti.*shudder*

One thing I can tell you, is that the angst factor never goes away. In fact I think it just keeps getting amped up!

Date: 2005-08-09 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I love your icon!

Re: angst. I am torn between "yay" and "oh no," because I really do love the characters.

I was a B/A shipper, but by the end of the show my frustration wasn't even most about the B/A not working out but that no ship did, which was just unrealistic.

B/A Dead (Angel and Buffy leave)
B/S Dead (Spike dies). And seriously, writers, just clarify that whole B/A/S thing, please. Would it kill you to make up your mind one way or another. Apparently it would.
S/D: Deader than a doornail dead
B/R Dead (Riley is married)
W/Oz Dead (Oz left, Willow doesn't love him any more)
W/T Dead (Tara dead)
X/C Dead (long dead)
X/W (never even got anywhere)
X/A Dead (well, Anya is pretty dead and Xander doesn't seem to care).

That is just beyond ridiculous and dissapointing and there are narrative rules and expectations and the end of Buffy makes no sense and don't get me started :)

Date: 2005-08-09 03:17 pm (UTC)
poisontaster: character Wen Qing from The Untamed (Default)
From: [personal profile] poisontaster
I hope you're happy! You have completely rekindled my Roswell love--which I was OVER, you hear me? OVER--and I finally broke down and went out and bought S1. *sigh*

The scene with Michael & Maria in the rain is one of my all time favorite moments of any show ever. Just makes the heart go "twang", you know?

Date: 2005-08-09 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
You have completely rekindled my Roswell love

Maybe Fox should pay me for promotion? A nice S2 DVD set would do nicely...

Oh yes, that scene with Michael and Maria is certainly one of my all time TV favorites: it's romantic and angsty and pretty and funny (with Maria's obsession with those herbal thingies) and I rewatched it before going to work this morning.

Date: 2005-08-09 03:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
Roswell *is* good with the schmompy, corny stuff. Have you seen the episode with the radio date yet? I was never much into Max and Liz (is just don't find Max particularly hot, it's his head/neck), but that episode made even me go weak in the knees.

Still, while I did buy that Liz/Max belong together, I liked them much better than apart. Mostly because they do yearning well and because Liz alone made me appreciate Liz as a person more.

I don't know what exactly was people's beef with S3. For me it was that there were quite a couple of new characters who weren't particularly interesting and who got *some* focus.

Date: 2005-08-09 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Roswell *is* good with the schmompy, corny stuff.

It's like Bollywood only much longer and with better writing.

Have you seen the episode with the radio date yet?...that episode made even me go weak in the knees

Oh yes. Yes, indeed. *dreamy sigh* That was probably one of the most romantic TV eps period.

just don't find Max particularly hot, it's his head/neck

I don't know why, but this made me laugh. More for me, I guess. :)

I liked them much better than apart

Evil sadist you :) I like angst very much (and am sure there is some coming), as long as there is payoff, but I have to say if that ep I watched last night is any indication, Liz/Max are one of those rare fictional couples I have fun watching even when UST turns into RST.

I don't know what exactly was people's beef with S3.

I am really curious to see how I'll like it, after reading comments. I can always forward to the angst and smoochies I suppose :)

Date: 2005-08-09 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I must warn you. Most people who disliked S2 and S3 seemed to have been shippers. Who complained that the ships were put too the wringer too much.

But at least you know that it will all have an end relatively soon and that it will end well for the central couples.

Basically was happened was that there was a change in direction (and in directors as well). The focus got put elsewhere, for many people.

Basically, if bad things start happening to your couple, just tell yourself that it will work out for the best eventually and that's probably the result of braindamage or brainwashing anyway ;)

For me it worked because to me the characters still struck me as trying to act honourable and still loving only each other even when they were apart. But I think for many people the "apart" period was too long for their taste. If worst comes to worst, there's always the option to just watch the best pro-shippy episodes (to me, some of which come in the later seasons; To me, aside from the radio date episode, my fave 3 episodes are in seasons 2 and 3).

Evil sadist you :) I like angst very much (and am sure there is some coming)

Yes, that's me. Especially when the couples aren't necessarily registering as my top faves, nothing gives me more enjoyment than to set up happy couples and then *wham* throw something terrible in their midst and nuke 'em. (after which they can scramble and get together again; but the nuking part makes me jump around with joy like an evil genius)

Date: 2005-08-09 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
*wham* throw something terrible in their midst and nuke 'em. (after which they can scramble and get together again; but the nuking part makes me jump around with joy like an evil genius

ROFL!

I don't mind the pining and the apart as long as it is there, as opposed to the characters not even caring about each other, and hey, I know it all ends happily so I don't mind all the sturm and drang. Plus, I think when you watch a show as it airs, there is uncertainty about how it will turn out that might drive you up the wall and you can only watch an ep a week, but it's clearly not the case with DVDs.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
It's weird, because to me, as an outsider, it always seemed very obvious that they were never seriously considering giving up Max/Liz. It never even occured to me, even when they were apart.

Guess for shippers it was more about being afraid that they might have the characters do something stupid (by accident), that would make them too... damaged/soiled whatever for the fans to want them together again.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Liz/Max might be the literally star-crossed lovers, but who knows, a network exec could just say: "Boring, they are over for good" and then the shippers are stuck. I think the shippers were afraid because of many other shows that had an OTP and screwed it up (Buffy, Moonlighting etc come to mind).

I don't just like Roswell for the ships though. I like the writing. The UFO parts are mildly interesting but what I enjoy is the snark. It's nowhere near as sharp as Buffy but it does have some lovely moments. My fave is in one of the eps I earlier watched where Michael is looking for milk for his cereal.

Michael: There's no milk.
Hank: Use beer.

I think I went to college with a Hank :)

Date: 2005-08-09 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I think what I liked for Roswell is that they had a pretty big core cast of characters who were all likable and who were all equally important. I mean on Firefly it always felt like Mal was so obviously the main character, just like Buffy was on Buffy and the others are supporting.

And even though Max/Liz are usually on the forefront of Roswell, it never felt to me like Michael/Maria were slighted. So even when the show went in a direction I didn't care for, I could just jump to another character to focus on. I stated out CRAZY about Michael and Maria. Then they started to annoy me and I went on liking one of the new characters. And when that feel through I became a "Liz is the only sane person left" fangirl. So there was always *something* to like for me.

Date: 2005-08-09 04:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
who knows, a network exec could just say: "Boring, they are over for good" and then the shippers are stuck. I think the shippers were afraid because of many other shows that had an OTP and screwed it up (Buffy, Moonlighting etc come to mind).

Interesting. Was there ever any particular reason given for why the pairings in Buffy were axed? Since I have a hard time picturing that boredom could have been the reason. I mean a lot of these seemed to have been actor dictated (like Oz leaving) or Cordy and Angel leaving for "Angel".

A lot of my favourite couples were screwed over too. Whaaaaa Ollie/Dinah 4eva!!! But I'm usually too attached to the singular characters to give up the thing as a whole, even when I don't like what has happened to my couple.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Yes, but the Angel spinoff was Joss's idea, so it is pretty much his baby.

I don't think there wasn't much reason except for the fact that I suppose it adds drama. It does for the first or second time. Then it just gets annoying.

I think Firefly and Buffy were more ensemble as well (e.g. on Firefly, there were Simon and River centric eps), but I don't mind "only one character is the main" thing at all.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I think my problem with central character shows is that when the main character is acting like an ass, it kinda makes the whole show go sour for me. Or it generally keeps you from getting too much into the show if the main character just isn't your type.

I wouldn't say that I'm totally opposed to one central character shows, it's just that I can't think of a lot of them right now.

Oh right, Veronica Mars and The Dead Zone, both of which I think are great even though there is one central main character and everyone being most definitively just supporting.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
My favorite by far show, Farscape, was all about John Crichton. If you think Firefly or Buffy were a one person show, just you wait.

Of course, I didn't mind since Crichton is one of my favorite fictional characters ever.

Date: 2005-08-09 05:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelana.livejournal.com
I've actually seen all of Firefly and season 1-6 of Buffy.

And I still thought that the leaders were too central for my taste. Especially since the situation looked like equality from the outside (group of people, a lot of them the same age, bunch of special powers going around; on one Firefly, bunch of kooky people all of them proverbially in the same boat), but when you look at from the inside can't shake the feeling of unequality. Like the main characters still having the edge over all others even though the writers like to pretend that all are equal.

Which is weird because a lot of similar shows never gave me the same problem. Take original Star Trek. Where you have Kirk who is officially the top dog, get all the girls, gets a lot of storylines dedicated to showing us why he's the best. With wih a handful of exceptions I was never bothered by him. Or got taken out of the series, just because I didn't like him much.

Dead Zone is different. The rules are clear. This is about Johnny and Johnny's journey. Everybody else is supporting. Not all supporting characters are even in all the episode. There is no "pretend" equality as far as the writing is concerned.

Date: 2005-08-10 12:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
Brendan Fehr is surprisingly good at the "falling apart at the seams" acting that Hayden Christensen has perfected. I think it's because he seems to have a more volatile vibe (very much like Christensen's) than Behr does. There is a sort of languid air to him that Christensen doesn't have though. Of course the fact that they're both Canadian and have pouty lips also seems to equate them in my mind too.

There's something so understatedly noble about Michael. He tries so hard to be a punk and smart aleck and act like he doesn't care, but under all of it, he really is a white knight like Max, if one that's rather rough around the edges. There are no flowery phrases tripping off his tongue like Max, but when Michael says something, you know he means it because he shoots from the hip, that's just his personality. He might not be as articulate, but he's just as sincere. He simply needs someone who will be straight with him (later on when Maria starts playing mind games with him, he can't deal with it) and someone who will let him screw up without holding it against him. And you know the screwing up isn't deliberate on his part, he honestly doesn't know any better.

Date: 2005-08-10 02:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
There's something so understatedly noble about Michael.

Exactly. I just finished the next ep and I love the bit when he thinks he is meeting Topolsky and he just tells Maria that "if anything happens to him" and he can't finish the sentence and come out and say how he feels but when they are in the woods, he wants to protect and take care of her and awwwww....

And even though he is really horrible at the dating business (I loved the double date scene), he really cares for her and tries to quiz Max about what to do because even though none of the mushy stuff interests him, he wants to make Maria happy. And then when she snaps at him and he asks her why, if he is such a loser, she likes hanging out with him and he looks very vulnerable at the time...He really does have that vulnerable/tough dichotomy that I love.

And he can be very quiet and gentle with Maria, even though he is no good at grand gestures. Just hugging her to him when she freaks out, for example.

the screwing up isn't deliberate on his part, he honestly doesn't know any better.

Exactly. Probably because of his upbringing, but he has no "manners" to speak of, but he means well and he really tries and that is lovely.

Date: 2005-08-10 01:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
That's the funny thing with Michael. He acts like he's tough and doesn't care very much, but there are some times that it looks like someone has physically slapped him when they snap at him. I think he craves approval in his own way, and when people are harsh with him he gets hurt then clams back up. I think because I have a personality similar to that I always related a lot to Michael.

"if anything happens to him" and he can't finish the sentence

Yeah, Michael cares and feels just as much as Max, he just can't verbalize it. He generally hints at it in more subtle ways, be it just knowing when to hold Maria or small gestures (like the Italian food).

Date: 2005-08-10 02:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I think he craves approval in his own way, and when people are harsh with him he gets hurt then clams back up.

The thing is, he lets so few people in precisely because he knows how much they can hurt him. And now Maria is of course in that small number.

He has to have self-esteem issues. The foster situation wasn't much help (when Hank just tells him he is useless and no wonder his parents ditched him? Ouch beyond ouch. He's got to wonder about that sometimes).

And I do love how he is always holding her, matter of factly, if she is worried or freaking out, or what. And how despite his "sex sex sex" spiel to Max, he is actually quite tender and sweet with Maria.

Date: 2005-08-10 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
I think the self esteem issues really show up in his relationship with Max. Michael wouldn't be as envious of a Max as he is if he had better self esteem. It's like he doesn't realize he can be just as good as Max is when he wants to be. He doesn't realize that he's the protector and Max is the healer and that doesn't make either one of them better than the other.

I took the "sex, sex, sex" speech to be more Michael bravado than anything else, because Maria honestly has him whipped in her own way, which is partially why the relationship is rather cute. It totally reminds me of the Ron/Hr relationship with the guy being the more aggressive but the girl pulling the strings.

Date: 2005-08-10 02:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
wouldn't be as envious of a Max as he is if he had better self esteem

True. He both has that "I envy you" and "you are better than me" which are both wrong. Max isn't better, he is just different.

It totally reminds me of the Ron/Hr relationship with the guy being the more aggressive but the girl pulling the strings.

Totally. When they first started their bickering, R/H completely sprang to mind. I love the bit where even after all the bickering in her car on the way to TX, she had a chance to turn him in and lied for him instead and you see on Michael's face that no one has ever probably bothered before. I think he is rather hooked from that moment on.

Date: 2005-08-10 03:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
I get the feeling Maria IS the first person who's made an effort for him. Max and Isabel care about Michael, sure, but they don't always understand him on the level Maria does. Michael considers himself the third wheel of the group and I think Maria is the first person who sees Michael for Michael, not as the troublemaker and punk, but as the insecure, emotionally traumatized, but ultimately sweet guy that he is.

It's always interesting how startlingly gentle Michael can be with her.

Date: 2005-08-10 03:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
That's a really interesting observation re: Max and Isabel.

I think it's another thing. Max and Isabel are family. And family loves you no matter what, but it's quite another (and wonderful for self-esteem) matter, when someone who doesn't "have" to love you choses to do so and falls for you instead.

It's always interesting how startlingly gentle Michael can be with her.

I know, and it's always a bit of a shock. You expect necking in closets and bickering. But the nonverbal comfort and just the peace of it is always so surprising.

Date: 2005-08-10 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crumpeteer.livejournal.com
I think Michael sort of needs the calm sometimes. He's always sort of going everywhere and he needs some sort of base. That's why he'd never dream of hurting her or using her.

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