Firefly ponderings

[dangermousie]

I was wondering who the "Independents" were. Could they have been the Outer planets who wanted freedom from the rigid and uncaring main worlds? That would explain how they lost, as their resources would be much worse, and also yet another reason why Mal likes the periphery. Is there any explanation about it that's non-spoilery?

ETA: I took a Firefly quiz. Results behind the cut.

I am Inara with a somewhat appropriate 69% :D That would explain the insane Mal-love, then.

You scored as Inara, the "Companion". </td> Inara, the "Companion" 69% Simon, the Doctor 56% First Mate Zoe 50% Kaylee, the Mechanic 44% Captain Malcolm Reynolds 25% Wash, the Pilot 25% RiVER 19% Jayne Cobb, resident bad-ass 19% Shepherd Book 19% FiREFLY QUIZ created with QuizFarm.com

Comments

[rawles.livejournal.com]

I can't imagine an explanation that would be spoilery, actually.

My reading of the show was always that yes, the bulk of the Independent force was made up of people from borderworlds.

Basically, the way I thought of it was that the human race spread out across this galaxy or whatever over X amount of years, and then once people have settled in and have their worlds running however they deemed fit, the Anglo-Sino Alliance rose up and decided that everyone should be under their control. People who liked the way that they were living and didn't see the benefit of being ruled over by folks far off from them didn't appreciate that.

It's also mentioned by Mal that the Alliance had far superior numbers. So while it's always possible that there were a few people who weren't from borderworlds who might have been against unification too, it's not likely they were in any great number.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Your theory makes a lot of sense. You also get the sense that the border worlds are neglected, so it's not as if they are getting Alliance benefits. I guess I was just wondering if the Independents were fighting unification and lost (in which case, yes, Alliance isn't going to put the on priority list for helping), or like the South in the Civil War, decided to leave beacause they weren't getting benefits or felt they were underrepresented and mistreated.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I was always under the impression that the Independents were more of an rebellion than an actual large scale war. If you notice the people they run into are generally all Alliance or indifferent. It always seems like Mal and Zoe are a different breed all together from the other people they run into.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I guess that would go with the whole society being rather conformist.

But also it could be that since the war is over, most people who weren't as hardcore idealist as Mal and Zoe just moved on and don't think about it much any more.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

It's my impression that the Independents were more a secessionist movement. That goes along with the "western" motif in the whole series. There's a definite influence of westerns like The Searchers and whatnot that have that defeated, but not crushed spirit in their characters. It would be my guess that Mal is a working of the post Appomattox Confederate hero, just like The Searchers and Jesse James movies. Inara is a working of the "beautiful Northern woman" motif that ends up joining the two worlds.

Of course, this is Whedon, so there's also the rather funky anime vibe to everything.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, I kept thinking of Mal as former Confederate soldier (and of course you also get the Doc, the Whore, the steady second in command etc, only with a Whedon-like twist).

I adore The Searchers. One of the best movies out there, and I am not much of a Western fan.

The structure reminds me a bit of "Stagecoach" which basically takes Western cliches (only since it was made in 1939, they weren't cliches yet), stickes them in one stagecoach and sends them on a really close and dangerous journey where they interact.

You have the good outlaw (who is really a Mal character), you have the whore with the heart of gold, you have the good-hearted but really alcoholic doc, you have an aristocratic military wife, heavily pregnant, off to join her husband, you have the professional gambler who used to be a Southern gentleman, you have an absconding and moralistic banker, a timid whiskey salesman, a comic relief coach driver, and a steady elderly sheriff.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Even the style clothing Mal wears is very much post Confederate styled, as is Zoe's. Twist is that Zoe is a female in the second in command role. Simon also fits perfectly into his motif with his initial wardrobe too (I'm pretty sure I've seen that vest in multiple gambling or saloon scenes). Jayne is the perfect Magnificent Seven or Wild Bunch-esque lug. Kaylee is the sweet school teacher. Etc, etc.

And then Whedon tries to dress it up as a "space western". He probably realizes that this has been done in the anime world with Cowboy Bebop, if the whole thing isn't a bit of a send up to that and westerns in general. Cowboy Bebop had the same basic pretense of ragtag crew of space cowboys (they even call Spike a cowboy on occassion even though he looks and acts nothing like one) that function as a screwed up family and whose main character had women issues.

The whole thing is rather genius if you think about it and it's a shame that Whedon had to cut the idea short, though it was probably the best thing that could happen to the series given Whedon's track record.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

it's a shame that Whedon had to cut the idea short, though it was probably the best thing that could happen to the series given Whedon's track record.

I wish the show could have run for two or so seasons. 14 eps is really too short. But certainly not more than that.

And yes, both I and Lord of Dangermousie (aka Husband) noticed that about the clothing. Mal's trousers have this stripe-thing that really makes them look like confederate-type pants. And yes on Simo's outfit. His little black glasses in the intro? Perfect.

[hawkmoth.livejournal.com]

Somewhere, in one of the many interviews with Joss about Firefly (or maybe it's on the DVDs?) he does cite "Stagecoach" as an influence. It's a great movie.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is really neat (and Joss has good taste :D) Thanks.

Because I couldn't help but think of Stagecoach a bit, where everyone starts out as stereotypes and becomes a full-blown human by the end!

[hawkmoth.livejournal.com]

Here's my fiction take on it:

Bloodlines (http://www.livejournal.com/users/words_in_flight/859.html#cutid1)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Ooooh. *off to peruse*

[katranna.livejournal.com]

You scored as First Mate Zoe. </td> First Mate Zoe 63% Simon, the Doctor 56% Captain Malcolm Reynolds 56% Jayne Cobb, resident bad-ass 31% Wash, the Pilot 25% Kaylee, the Mechanic 25% Inara, the "Companion" 25% RiVER 6% Shepherd Book 6% FiREFLY QUIZ created with QuizFarm.com

What's this mean?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

This means you are not insane, religious, or view sex as an art. It means you are steady and strong and loyal and monogamous. And a good fighter. And you find goofs sexy.

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Cool.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

I know it *looks* like post-Civil War western frontier, but personally I don't like the analogy of Mal and Zoe as ex-confederates. Maybe because I don't see anything romantic about the confederate cause, or maybe because it doesn't appear that the independent worlds had a bloated, unsustainable, agrarian way of life that catered to a small aristocracy while brutally oppressing... well, you get my objection.

As a historical analogy, I've always thought of them more as survivors of a failed American Revolution. Colonists, sent out from the central worlds to seek a better life. Given nothing but a "newly terraformed planet with a cow and a handful of seed" (Mal puts it something like that). If they succeed, it's totally on their own effort; if they fail, no one from the central planets helped them or cared. So then the central government comes in with irrelevant laws, wanting tax money etc. So the upshot is a federation of independent worlds (or colonies, if you will) who don't necessarily want to form their own central govt, but want to be free of what they view as oppressive interference from the mother worlds.

My 2 cents ;->

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, the Confederate thing is only an analogy. Part of the reason this isn't a Confederate situation but only an analogy in space is because that way Firefly doesn't have to deal with slavery or severe class system. The Independents were (from the little we can gather) not the regressive part of the galaxy.

The American Rev. analogy is very viable, but it doesn't work as well for me. I do wonder about terraforming. Usually, it is a lot of effort to terraform, so it seems a bit odd (or most likely sloppy worldbuilding, which doesn't bother me) to go to all that effort and then just leave it for leasurly colonization instead of intensive use.

But that leads me to a related question, re: slavery. It exists out on the periphery but it seems to be a winked-at custom, not a legally accepted practice. I wonder if there is slavery in the Alliance.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Well, the confederates were a political unit. They formed their own government with a president, etc. Maybe the Independents did that, but we've not seen any evidence of such. From what we've seen, they seem more like totally independent worlds with a common cause against the Alliance (which might have brought them together if they'd won...but they lost).

But I freely admit that part of my reaction against the confederacy idea, is, like I said. There was nothing good there, and if I bought the analogy, I wouldn't be able to like Mal as much (for clinging to such a cause) and I'd wonder what Joss was trying to say by offering up such a romantic vision.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Re: Independents. I agree that it is likely they were a loose coalition of planents who wanted to ditch (actually rather like Confederacy, whose common government was much more of a lose and independent between states variety (thus the "Confederacy" term).

Well, I do think it's just an analogy, thus Josh took some tropes from it, but not lock stock and barrel. Just as in the Western, it's 1870s or so, thus the soldiers are Confederates (or Union soldiers) who have been displaced and have nowhere to go and no skill save fighting.

I guess if it makes it a more comfortable analogy, you can view Mal and Zoe as Union veterans, only they lost.

Mal clearly is not a classist or a slaver.

But I guess if I had an instinctive shuddery aversion to it, I couldn't like it either.