Buffy musings, Huguenots with thighs of iron, and BSG (unfortunately not at the same time).

[dangermousie]

One of the episodes I was watching on the train yesterday was “Enemies,” the S3 episode where Faith and the Mayor try to rob Angel of this soul and Angelus and Faith kidnap and torture Buffy but we find out at the end it was all a ruse between Buffy and Angel to trick information out of Faith.


If I ever compile a list of my Top 10 favorite Buffy episodes, this would be on it. Maybe it’s because the first time I saw it, I really did think Angel lost his soul and the reveal at the end was a “whoa” moment for me (though on rewatches you can see little clues that this is not the case). Maybe because for an angst-maven like me, there is so much angst in this episode: Buffy’s jealousy of Faith is small potatoes compared to the rest, i.e. the horrifying flashbacks the return of Angelus (even if it was fake) must have brought for her. I can’t imagine how much it must have broke her heart, playacting or not. Angel isn’t exactly having fun either, considering the guilt he feels for his Angelus episode, and the whole he’d-rather-die-than-hurt-Buffy thing he has is getting violated in a big bad way here and he can see her hurt. And of course at the end, he did what she asked and she still freaks out and needs a break. Yeah.

Angel: “You still my girl?”
Buffy: “Always”
Dangermousie: Guuuuh.

And we also have the funny: the Mayor (who remains my favorite Buffy villain), Angelus and Faith interactions etc etc. And the mushy bit in the beginning with the “artsy” movie Buffy and Angel went to see, which, seeing their peculiar sex problem is both sweet and funny and awwww (Yeah, I am a sap who has a thing for couples with teeny girls and big guys).

And the dialogue is sharp enough to make me pretty much revel in it…

But this episode does bring up two questions, one of which I’ve had for a long time, and one that I just thought about.


First, the new one. Did Angel and Faith have sex or at least get really frisky? Normally, I’d say no, seeing as the whole “Angel loves Buffy” thing is there, but wouldn’t Faith be a bit surprised if Angelus just smooched her and showed no further interest. Hmmmm….

And the one that has been bugging me since forever. Why does everyone in Whedonverse assume that sex=Angel loses his soul (Faith and Mayor do, in this ep). As far as I am aware, it’s “moment of true happiness”=”Loses his soul.” And unless you are a sex maniac, every time you have sex isn’t going to lead to the true happiness they are talking about. If sex=true happiness, then whoa, talk about simplistic (and bizarre). Angel lost his soul making love to Buffy, because she’s Buffy, the love of his life. Why would it follow he’d lose his soul whoever he had sex with? With this logic, the guy has got to be the most frustrated vampire ever, because you know…not even his right hand?

Also, Buffy makes the world bond. I ended up sharing the screening (and a set of headphones) with a nice 50ish gentleman who helped me wrestle my bag into the space above (am short so need all the help I can get), and he ended up loving it.

The one English language book I bought in New York was Susan Carroll’s, “The Courtesan,” a semi-fantasy (it has witches) novel set during the reign of Henri III. It’s a middle part of a trilogy about 3 witchy sisters and their twu wuv. It’s entertaining (and has the two ingredients I like, angst and hot men), though nothing super-memorable. The Catholic “courtesan” of the title falls in love with the man she thought long dead, who is a Huguenot soldier planning to rescue Henri of Navarre. Much angst ensues. At one point the hero is described as having “thighs of iron” which made me laugh out loud, because wouldn’t that be painful?

I am interested in the last book though, because it involves the youngest sister and her beloved, and sounds like it’s full of wangst (TM crumpeteer), since they are childhood friends, but she is a witch and he is a witch-hunter and he tried to kill her brother-in-law and arrest her sister, and she threatened to shoot him and then he wouldn’t let his flunkies fire when she jumped between their prey and the gun and they have major angst over each other already in the second book and maybe he’ll have thighs of steel. Hee.

Also, after seeing the way S2 of BSG is going, and the previews for the next ep, I'd say Cylons don't need to worry about destroying humans. They are doing a good job on their own.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Actually, we have a canon answer to both questions: I always assumed Angel and Faith did have sex until the AtS episode Sanctuary, in which Faith when talking about her past with Buffy says "and I had sex with her boyfriend", Angel says "no, we didn't", and Faith says "not you, the other one" (i.e. Riley). (Which is how Angel finds out that Buffy and Riley are now a couple - he did watch them talk in Pangs, but that was before they dated.) So, canonically there was no Angel/Faith sex during Enemies.

Angel and sex: again, AtS brings this up several times, most amusingly in the "not a eunuch" scene in Guise will be Guise. Bear in mind that the people who assume that sex equals perfect happiness are teenagers. As early as season 1, episode Eternity Wesley quite reasonably points out to Cordelia (when she says re: Angel "when he gets groiny with someone, he loses his soul") that this won't be the case just because of sex. The audience gets illustrated that it won't be when Angel doesn't lose his soul after sex with Darla in season 2 (though his morning after manners don't improve with a soul), and thereafter the characters let go of the assumption as well. (And in season 5, Angel has progressed to have friendly sex with someone and not treat them like dirt the morning after. Behold.)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Thank you, because both of these have been bugging me..

I must admit I never watched Angel, otherwise I'd know the answer and not be exposing my ignorance :)

I do wonder why the Mayor thought the sex thing (as it appears he did), but maybe he just thought it was worth a try.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

I think the Mayor thought Faith was so special that of course Angel would have an ultimate, soul-losing, happy from having sex with her ;-). I think Faith assumed that too.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

LOL. That strikes me as about right.

It's hilarious because he is actually whoring her out while being truly (though evilly) paternal. "She is not a little girl any more." *snerk*

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Well, yes... but he's also indulging her. She wants Angel and Daddy knows it, so he does what he can to get his little girl her heart's desire. (even if it means whoring her out to get what *he* wants, LOL!)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

A family that villains together, stays together?

I really love that there is a lot of twisted and mutual affection there.

She wants Angel

Who doesn't :D

[ysrith.livejournal.com]

"Tighs of Iron" Waah!
That is up there with "Nipples like binoculars". I must add it to my collection of dodgy phrases I have read.

As for the Cylons' plan - sit back and watch the silly humans exterminate themselves. Smart Cylons.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Nipples like...wha? That doesn't even make sense as an analogy. ROFL.

[ysrith.livejournal.com]

I swear to God this is a real quote.
"Single White Vampire" by Lyndsay Sands. It's a so-so semi-piss take vampire romance, which was going along fine enough, until this.

The whole quote is "She has nipple like the tips of binoculars, but unlike binoculars, he did not want to look through them, but to lick and suck............"

I was left with a very bizarre image.

And it ruined the rest of the book for me.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

This is bad enough to be in the Bulwer-Lytton contest!

[poisontaster]

And quite frightening in concept.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

"Nipples like binoculars?" You mean two long cylinders on each breast?

Waaaah, indeed.

If I saw the "thighs" thing in fanfic, I would havw cringed. But in an actual book...heee.

[ysrith.livejournal.com]

Bad fanfic writers must grow up to become Bad Romance Novelists.
My pet hate is Christine Feehan, writer of very bad, very repetitive Vampire Romance, and user of such phrases as "eyes the color of coffee beans, a dark espresso" and "bulging sinews".

At least most bad fanfic writers have the excuse that they are 12 and don't know any better. These people get paid to write this!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

"Bulging sinews?" I can imagine nothing sexier...

Gaaaaah!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

P.S. Have I mentioned the "she's been raped but gets healed by romantic sex" cliche this book had? At least it was years after the fact...

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

That analogy disgusts me more than anything else. Just. Ew.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

ROFL. I think I can get published, if she can.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Gah, half the terrible fanfic writers I've mocked can get published if she can. Creative license= revoked.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

ROFL.

What I want to know, who do you have to bribe, and with what, to get these books out? Really.

[ysrith.livejournal.com]

Sorry "Thighs of Iron" - BSG is corrupting my brain!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Tigh is unfortunately, iron-free, if his arms are any indication.

[ysrith.livejournal.com]

He does have scrawny arms, doesn't he?

They have a very disturbing obsession about that man in his underwear on that show. I think I may be traumatized. I need naked Apollo as therapy!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think we should start a petition. Everyone has a petion, after all.

Yes, Tigh's arms aren't anything I need to see on regular basis, thank you very much!

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Also, Buffy makes the world bond. I ended up sharing the screening (and a set of headphones) with a nice 50ish gentleman who helped me wrestle my bag into the space above (am short so need all the help I can get), and he ended up loving it.

I went to a Slayers convention once. You'd be amazed at the different kinds of people there.

but she is a witch and he is a witch-hunter and he tried to kill her brother-in-law and arrest her sister,

Wow that reminds me of the anime Witch Hunter Robin. The main character is a witch who hunts other witches for an elite group and the leader of the group has feelings for her but hates witches because his mother was one, so angst and black trenchcoats ensue. Extremely good series. Like Buffy meets the X-Files. And I don't know if Amon had thighs of iron, but I wouldn't mind checking. ;)

I was always a Spike fan because in the end, it turned out that he really did start as a nice guy before he got turned. Angel wasn't a good human, but Spike actually was, which I thought was interesting. And in the end, he went and GOT his soul back, not had it cursed on him.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I don't know if Amon had thighs of iron, but I wouldn't mind checking.

ROFL.

I like Spike as a character, but I didn't really like how they turned the whole vampire=demon that takes over your body thing that was eastablished earlier on its head. Because Angel and Angelus (e.g.) are two clearly distnict and separate people. But Spike and Spikeus? Not really. And the getting his soul back didn't make any sense to me from that perspective. Because either Spike in S7, is not the Spike we know from S1-6 (just like Angel isn't Angelus) or they really messed up their own rules by the end (I think the latter and souled and unsouled Spike aren't that different).

Also, not a Buffy/Spike shipper (though matter of preference of course), because of the whole "Buffy and Angel are supposed to be the OTP according to earlier seasons thus logically they should end up together and I like my shows to have narrative coherency and correct emotional arcs."

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

P.S. Since Buffy fandom is basically a shipper war zone in a scary scary way, I have to state that I have nothing against any and all Buffy shippers of any variety. Just have my own preferences on the way I thought the story should have gone.

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

I think it was slowly revealed in the latter seasons of both shows that Angel/Angelus were not as distinctly different people as both he and Buffy liked to believe in the earlier seasons--because believing that made life much more emotionally comfortable for them. That Angelus *was* a part of him, always had been, and always would be, was something Angel needed to learn in order to become a complete person. Spike seemed to get it more instinctively, but he too struggles with the issue in Season 7. So what, exactly, does a soul contribute? The subject material for much fan debate ;-) A conscious; the ability to choose; the ability to take responsibility for one's actions... Just to put some possibilities on the table.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

The reason I thought about the separate person thing was because of what Giles was saying in S1 (in Premiere, I think), about how that person is already dead, etc etc.

I think if a vampire got his soul back, the vampire-demon-whatever persona would always be a part of him simply because he'd share the memories and experiences. But I never thought it was more than that. But yeah, that's what fandom is for...fan debate :)

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I never liked Spuffy myself, even though I was a Spike fan. It undermined both B/A and S/D and I never understood the pairing just to pair them.

And I think the whole soul getting thing is where Whedon started breaking down towards the end. His mythology started to not make sense, which is sad, because it worked well in the beginning. Season 2 and 3 are probably my favorite. That's when his plots made good sense and the characters weren't all watered down. And frankly I like evil snarky Spike better than love whipped Spike.

And Amon= trenchcoat!angst. He's not the angstiest angst that ever angsted, but he's pretty high up there.
http://www.animegalleries.net/img/60480

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/96583

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/60484

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

First off: Amon is hot. Look at that jaw :D

Yes, I rather liked Spike and Drusilla together. So unsettlingly creepy and yet romantic in a disturbing way. Yes, I also prefer evil snarky Spike (the bit at the end of Becoming II, where he tells Drusilla "I don't want to hurt you" and then when she tries to fight, clobbers her and dead pans "doesn't mean I won't" is priceless).

And I also agree on the mythology break-down. I want my shows to have a consistent mythology underlining it. Otherwise it's just arbitrary random rules that undermine the realism of the world.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Yes, Amon wangested his way into my heart. There are times though that you're just like "dude, doesn't all this wangst give you ulcers or something? I mean along with all the hard drinks you seem to be hitting?" Yeah, Amon, of the highest order of bishie.

I liked S/D just because it was so messed up. Dru was crazy as hell, but Spike still loved her, even if that love was a little messed up, to put it mildly. It just didn't make sense to me that she'd leave him high and dry and that he wouldn't viciously pursue her. Sometimes I think Whedon even confuses himself.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, all these wangsty heroes in real life, wouldn't be functioning because of being in therapy.

S/D...I love the bit where they do a crazy little waltz in one of the S2 eps. So much love. As to Whedon, hey it was an OTP, ergo it was going to get destroyed sooner or later :)

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Yes, Whedon is a destroyer of dreams. Good thing that Firefly ended when it did because other wise there would have been a busting up of Simon/Kaylee and Inara would have ended up with Jayne or something.

Oh the horror.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Inara would have ended up with Jayne

After this visual, I'd have to poke my eyes out.

Luckily, even a trilogy of movies is not enough to really screw up all the OTPs *hopes, crosses fingers hard, tries not to jinx*

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

The thing with the movies is that he shouldn't have enough time to be screwing around with the OTPs. The only thing he could do is kill someone off, and though he's not above doing something like that, I'm more inclined to think he won't.

If they kill Simon I WILL go all reaver on them. Don't think I won't. The OTP has to end with them together with like 10 kids all conceived in the engineroom or I WILL BRING THE PAIN. Ahem.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

10 kids in the engineroom? Bwaaaaaa. *loves*

I think Simon would be pretty low on the "might get killed" totem pole. I'd be more worried about Kaylee.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Oh you know they're totally going to end up in the engineroom.

And someone is going to end up with angst, just because Whedon is Satan. I'd say Inara and Kaylee are both marked as is Book and possibly Wash or River. I just don't see him killing Mal, Jayne or Zoe. Everyone else is dodging bullets though.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, no way is Mal being bumped off (unless it's at the very end if they make a trilogy). Zoe and Jayne, also unlikely. I'd add Simon to the list, actually.

But in any event, here's my take on the potential offing of anyone.

If it's Book, Wash, Zoe, Jayne or River? Nice knowing ya, guys. Sad, but I'll deal.

If it's Kaylee or Inara? Oh god no. I don't want the OTP uber-angst. Simon and Mal deserve something good in their lives, and plus I love Kaylee and Inara.

If it's Simon, or Mal? Can I join your reaver team?

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I'd miss Wash if he goes because hey, they're the sweet married couple of the group and I like Wash. I could see him ending up dead just because they ARE the sweet married couple though.

But then, there's the fact that it's rag tag group of misfits that have formed a makeshift family that possibly means that everyone will survive. Even Cowboy Bebop, an anime with the same premise, didn't kill anyone until the very end, and even that wasn't explicitly stated, it just sort of looked like he was dead. There is a LOT of anime influence in Whedon's work, he's even mentioned that, so who knows.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I do hope everyone will survive...I am a sappy optimist, after all.