If you show me yours, I’ll show you mine: Baltar ramble

[dangermousie]

The lovely new icon, courtesy of ancarett made me think about Gaius Baltar (is his middle name Julius? Please tell me it is!).

I can only tolerate Baltar in small dozes. A few minutes of him in an episode is just the right amount. If I find out that an ep next season is Baltar-centric, I’d bring a book with me and peek at the TV for the glimpse of The Arms, but I won’t squee with joy. His nervous tics and selfish antics get on my nerves a bit. He is entirely predictable: you know exactly which way he’ll jump in any circumstance (unlike Farscape’s Rygel who was both funnier and much more unpredictable. He could sell the crew out, but he could also do something altruistic). I don’t know why I don’t find him more interesting, but I admit he rather bores me. Maybe it’s because he largely stares at half-dressed Tricia Helfer while the rest of the cast members do a good job of ignoring her. I guess he is just not “main character material” (I found Scorpius in Farscape a lot less annoying than Baltar and quite interesting, but the one Scorpy-centric ep, The Incubator, is on my least-rewatched list).

I enjoy watching Zarek, who is clearly Not A Good Guy, but he does seem to be a lot more sane and together than Baltar, a lot more Realpolitik. Maybe I like him more because Zarek might be Bad, but he is also Strong. Baltar is hugely weak, and that gets nothing but my contempt (though you can see remains of a rumpled charm when he plays cards with Starbuck early on, or when he makes a political speech).

However, that makes me wonder. Is the Six he talks to a manifestation? Cylon chip in his head? Astral projection? ;) What makes me wonder even more, will RM ever specify (it doesn’t seem important to the plot, does it?). I am also amused at the thought that all his advice, whether selfish or spur-of-the-moment turns out to be correct. The decision to ditch that man in the mini as a Cylon agent, motivated by his desire not to be found out? Guess what, the man IS a cylon. His advice to blow up the Olympic Carrier, motivated by his fear of info on it? That ship was Cylon occupied. Shelley Godfrey was a Cylon, the Cylon detector works, and the explosion in Ep 10 is where he said it should be. Is he just lucky? (unlikely), are the Cylons helping him (chip theory), or is he so brilliant, he can’t help himself (I think that’s the most likely one).

Also, the reason he gets away with weird mumbling and what not, and no one notices the shifty-eyed behavior is because he is that world’s Einstein and the people can’t see past the reputation. Any outsider (e.g. if a member of Farscape was dropped in the BSG world) could tell there was something really wrong with him right away, even if they knew he was supposed to be a genius, because they didn’t have an emotional, ingrained view of his greatness.

Re: Baltar’s potential crush on Starbuck. He is not used to rejection. He chases because she rejects. When she is uninterested in him in bed, it cements his interest humongously. If she went “Gaius, you were the best ever smoochy smooch” he’d have no interest in her. Six, after all, also appeared as an aloof cool woman and he was fixated on her.

Comments

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I amazes me how they've taken a show that was really campy and a knock off of Star Wars back in the day and turned it into something really cereberal. I've heard people calling it the best show on television, and while I wouldn't go that far, it's by far one of the best, if not THE best sci fi series I've ever seen.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, I really think it's excellent and thought-provoking. I still prefer Farscape over this, as FS was no-holds-barred, anything-goes, emotional fest but this is a heck of a show.

I saw a rerun of the old one on scifi and had a happy giggle fit: it was SO ridiculous. Reminded me of the old Flash Gordon movie.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I would say Firefly is on the level with BSG, just in a different way. Firefly was like crack, you start watching it and you're hooked. Not as serious as BSG, but still pretty deep. And as much as I don't like Starbuck, the actress is great, which isn't something I normally say. All the actors are incredibly good for being unknowns.

I have the old mini series and it's hilariously bad.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Haven't seen Firefly. But I know scifi is rerunning it end of July so we'll see :)

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

It's worth watching. The characters are really easy to get attached to. And the main character is basically Han Solo for all intents and purposes.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

basically Han Solo for all intents and purposes.

I am sold :)

[phylogenetics.livejournal.com]

In case you are wondering, I really about a dozen things to do, but LJ is my way of procrastination....


can only tolerate Baltar in small dozes. A few minutes of him in an episode is just the right amount. If I find out that an ep next season is Baltar-centric, I’d bring a book with me and peek at the TV for the glimpse of The Arms, but I won’t squee with joy.

Here! Here!


I enjoy watching Zarek, who is clearly Not A Good Guy, but he does seem to be a lot more sane and together than Baltar, a lot more Realpolitik. Maybe I like him more because Zarek might be Bad, but he is also Strong. Baltar is hugely weak, and that gets nothing but my contempt (though you can see remains of a rumpled charm when he plays cards with Starbuck early on, or when he makes a political speech).


I think Zarek is written to be the 'bad guy', but Richard Hatch plays him as a 'good guy'. If you ever read any of his interviews, he does think Zarek is a good person. I concur with Balter. What really gets me no one ever calls on him his crap! Understandable since they all think he's a brilliant yet eccentric scientist, but frustrating. It's even more annoying that he enjoys so much of the 'perks' of his station yet skews from any real responibility (gee, I think I'll just not tell people who our resident cylon will be b/c she may hurt me, hmm, I think I'm going to give everyone a 'green' b/c it's too much work otherwise).

I am also amused at the thought that all his advice, whether selfish or spur-of-the-moment turns out to be correct.


Yeah, it's an interesting setup.


Also, the reason he gets away with weird mumbling and what not, and no one notices the shifty-eyed behavior is because he is that world’s Einstein and the people can’t see past the reputation.


I think they see 'brilliant yet weird'. But they also think, 'scientist lose mind at end of world'. It's interesting to note that both Roslin and Starbuck look at him with disgust. Perhaps the women know him to be a slimeball since he seems to treat females as sex objects.

Adama seems to hint at knowing there's something wrong with Balter, but that could just be he doesn't like people who are so cagy. I think people notice his weird behavior but they haven't seen an ill intent. Under the circumstances, no one can fathom how *any* human would work for the cylons, or sabotage their security.


Re: Baltar’s potential crush on Starbuck. He is not used to rejection. He chases because she rejects. When she is uninterested in him in bed, it cements his interest humongously. If she went “Gaius, you were the best ever smoochy smooch” he’d have no interest in her. Six, after all, also appeared as an aloof cool woman and he was fixated on her.


He's a sex maaaaaniac. :D

[phylogenetics.livejournal.com]

I'm not a farscape fan, never saw it. My friend, who got me into BSG, keeps telling me to watch it...but I fear I'll like it and be sad that i was cancelled....I have this thing where I cannot be involved in a cancelled fandom.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I don't think you'll be sad about the cancellation because after it they did a miniseries which completed all the arcs nicely (it was intended to be a 5 season show, got cancelled after 4, and the mini covered the rest). So I actually view it as a really long movie.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

LJ is my way of procrastination....

Me too.

I think Zarek is written to be the 'bad guy', but Richard Hatch plays him as a 'good guy'. If you ever read any of his interviews, he does think Zarek is a good person.

That's really interesting, I didn't know that. Zarek strikes me as someone so doctrinaire that he will keep to his dogma even if it's unsuited in the new environment (election? Important. Not as important as the survival of the human race, however). And he views himself as the one best able to enforce the absolute good, not an uncommon revolutionary assumption.

It's even more annoying that he enjoys so much of the 'perks' of his station yet skews from any real responibility

Exactly. I can see why he doesn't want to tell about Six. But the "no test" attitude is ridiculous.

Under the circumstances, no one can fathom how *any* human would work for the cylons, or sabotage their security.

Yes, but they can (should?) see that he is hiding something, mental illness or incompetency or whatever, that makes him unfit to have a nuclear bomb around or be VP.

He's a sex maaaaaniac. :D

ROFL!

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

I think Baltar might be a case of brilliance (or maybe humanity) winning out over the users best efforts to either supress it or manipulate it. Baltar does good in spite of himself, which is rather amusing. It would be so much easier if he just blended into the background, yet his advice makes him stand out all the more because it tends to be right so often. It's almost amusing that if his intent had anything to do with it, they'd all be dead, yet he keeps saving them in spite of himself.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I guess he is so smart that he doesn't even need to think :)

For some reason, he reminds me a bit of Crane in Batman Begins.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Crane was more overtly in control of things and more aggressive than Baltar is. They both have definite creepy vibes though.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

He was also prettier :)

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

Six, after all, also appeared as an aloof cool woman and he was fixated on her.

Not in the mini. Before he found out she was a Cylon and the power dynamic shifted, she was a little needy, asking "Do you love me?", and he was the one who was distant and slightly mocking. His affair with Six lasted that long because she needed it to last, but she was the one who showed up and the one who called, IIRC. (Also, see the hilarious deleted scene from KLG1, where he's trying to break up with her and treats her like any clingy girlfriend). Which completely confirms your theory: it's the chase he's interested in, and he's only fixated on Starbuck because he's "had" her without really having her, which must drive him crazy.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Must see deleted scenes. *clutches at hair*

Baltar is one of those people who cannot connect to another person, so the part of the relationship that follows post-chase, i.e. getting to really know and connect to that other person, has no interest for him.

But the chase is all about ego and self-validation. In fact, about the most effective thing Starbuck could have done to maintain his interest was to go to bed with him and call out another man's name. Because now Baltar needs to prove himself and will chase her as much as he can.

[maddeinin.livejournal.com]

Is he just lucky? (unlikely), are the Cylons helping him (chip theory), or is he so brilliant, he can’t help himself (I think that’s the most likely one).

...Or his hand really is guided by god, in which case I will spork my eyes out.

I think I tolerate Baltar mostly for the brilliant comedic abilities of the actor.

(Hi! friends'friends-surfing.)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Hi back! *does a hearty, politician wave*

Or his hand really is guided by god, in which case I will spork my eyes out.

I'll join you.

I tolerate Baltar, but in teeny dozes. Sometimes, very rarely, when he is not being Sixed, you see why he had groupies or what not, but mostly I just want to smack him.

[maddeinin.livejournal.com]

See, I kinda enjoy wanting to smack him. Zarek, on the other hand, gets on my last nerve, mostly because he's so realistic.

Um, not that I know any terrorists or anything, just that it feels like met dozens of (middle-aged, well-off) men with the same general air of smarm. And I wanted to throw every last one of them out of an airlock.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Maybe Baltar and Zarek could have a tussle in the airlock and push the wrong button? :)

I guess Baltar's wimpiness just annoys me more than any other quality.

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

Must see deleted scenes.

You can see them on the sci-fi website, if you want. There's a list of eps with the plot summary, and each one has the corresponding deleted scenes. This one is quite good. It's before he leaves for Kobol, and he's very apologetic, tells her that it's not her, it's him, he needs a break, and maybe their relationship will get better when he comes back. And then he kisses her on the forehead while she's looking daggers at him!. It's hilarious, because she's this extremely dangerous cylon, but he's so self-centered that he treats her like he'd treat any girlfriend who was crowding him. And he does it in that Baltar manner: notice that he's almost never rude, is always ready to spout off whatever platitude will calm the woman down. Like you, I don't like him, but he's interesting to watch in small doses. The clown antics, like in Roslin's office in KLG1, aren't scenes I like much. It's rather the understated ones, like when he gives Boomer the final push to shoot herself, while apparently comforting her. He's chilling, really.

[phylogenetics.livejournal.com]

Yes, but they can (should?) see that he is hiding something, mental illness or incompetency or whatever, that makes him unfit to have a nuclear bomb around or be VP.


Yeah, I rant about this on my LJ too. BSG official website points out there's a research vessel in the fleet with hundreds of scientists, yet we act like Balter is the *only* scientist. Adama certainly made a point of saying that to Balter ('you're the only one we have'). One of the biggest problems with BSG protrayal of 'realism' is how unrealistic they protray science and scientists.

Balter is the Generic Scientist. Anything that requires any knowledge of science is given to Balter to do, yes, even important blood tests that Balter could probably train someone with a bio background to do is done by our doc. And his cylon detector is built with the help of....drum roll please....Lt. Gaeta! Yes, I understand a need for secrecy, but if we can trust to pick civilians to fly Vipers, then we can trust a few civilians with bio background to help Balter as well.

But with the reasoning of Balter's unique status in the fleet, he is given sensitive projects, b/c he's the only scientist....but he's not. Given 50,000 people, there's got to be at least a few that has some bio background, maybe even more so than Balter, who's a COMPUTER SCIENTIST for goodness sake. Ugh.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

He's chilling, really.

In some ways, he is rather sociopathic, isn't he? He is good at manipulation and has no feelings for anyone other than himself. It's a good thing he has no interest in stashing bodies in freezers.

I can't dl stuff as my work computer is just that, and my home one is a bit too slow. Oh well. Sounds hilarious...Baltar is one of the most solipcistic characters I've ever come across.

I hope you don't mind, but I friended you, btw.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Or even if he is the biggest all-round genius EVER, he can still have lab assistants to run those tests (even if they can't replicate them for a gobledegooky reason of only one machine being usable at a time or similar). Someone who will first be tested by Baltar to make sure he is not a Cylon. That way Baltar will be free for his VP duties and away from the nuclear warhead. *sigh*

[raffaella.livejournal.com]

The deleted scenes are on the UK DVDs, so I suppose they'll also be on the region 1 DVDs when they finally come out.

Friending you right back.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I wonder when the US DVDs will be out. They always take forever. One of these days I'll end up buying a region-free DVD player *sigh*

[phylogenetics.livejournal.com]

Moore's work on Star Trek is showing with this mistake :p.

We should write to him!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Heh. It's a common scifi problem that doesn't bother me too much, except for the fact that Baltar is frakking insane!

Oooh! I love firefly :-)

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Mal is sort of like Han Solo, but he is much darker. Lovable, damaged rogue.

Me too!

[grace-om.livejournal.com]

Which is to say I agree about Baltar: for me he really is the weakest link plotwise of the show. While he's done some things that were fun to watch (the bathroom scenes in "Six Degrees" and "Colonial Day" spring to mind), most of his BS is sooo obviously just that. It isn't plausible that everyone takes it at face value. It makes all the other characters seem stupid...even though we know they're not.

Re: Me too!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I have never undrstood why (e.g.) he didn't tell them he didn't know where the good explosion points were in Hand of God. There's no shame or traitorness in not knowing. But there's tons intelling wrong. So why would someone as concerned with self-preservation as he make that blunder?

And his random "I am thinking of it just this second" explanations mainly leave me shaking my head, thinking: are they really as dumb as you think they are? But apparently the answer is yes.

Re: Me too!

[cpt-raina.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I have never undrstood why (e.g.) he didn't tell them he didn't know where the good explosion points were in Hand of God.
Yeah it always bugged me that they didn't just consult someone with knowledge on Tylium mines about the target. I mean, the Cylons have only been evolving their own tech for 50 some-odd years, so I'd imagine that their mining operations would still bear some semblance to Colonial.

The Baltar episode didn't bore me that much, to my surprise. Normally as soon as Baltar shows up on screen and that annoying music plays, I roll my eyes and start ticking away the seconds until the scene's over. I think it's because Baltar's scenes are such a drastic departure from the normal mood of the show that it interrupts the emotional narrative, but if he's got his own episode that isn't a problem.