Rambling on heroines and equality

[dangermousie]

Saw Howl's Moving Castle again yesterday. What can I say, I love it (and the second time around the story actually made complete sense (satisfied me, at least) and I wasn't confused a bit).

And that got me to thinking about heroes, heroines and their characteristics. I absolutely hate when the heroine is a damsel in distress and all she can do is whimper helplessly throughout as the hero rescues her. My favorite example is the silent flick "The Pagan" with Ramon Novarro. It's a really fun movie, but the heroine's helplessness drives me up the wall. During a climactic scene her lover is fighting the bad guy and all she does is stand nearby and scream helplessly, when a well-placed bottle to the head of the villain would finish this whole thing off (there are plenty of silent films with strong women characters. This is not one of them). Of course, I get equally annoyed when feminism runs amock and the heroine ALWAYS rescues herself and the hero does nothing useful (see Drew Barrymore's "Ever After:" the Prince was a looker but he did absolutely nothing. She always took perfect care of herself).

Either one of the situations always leads me to the frustrated question: why would you want that person in real life? Shouldn't you want someone who helps you out occasionally? It doesn't have to be physical, of course. In fact, I prefer it when characters who are a couple have different strengths. My favorite ever couple is Lymond and Philippa from Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond Chronicles and Lymond does not need physical help in fighting. He does however recieve and accept help in various sticky situations, emotional help etc etc etc. She helps him as much as he helps her.

So yeah, one of the reasons I love Howl's is that the heroine is throughly competent but she is no Drew Barrymore in Ever After who is so perfect she needs no one (and is skating dangerously close to a Mary Sue): Sophie might rescue Howl, but he "rescues her back." And they both screw up as well. That is how it should work.

Comments

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Sadly enough, I normally find that fantasy books and anime balance the male/ female relationships better than most movies. Movies either tend to swing one way or the other, too much girl power or too much "help me save me". There's rarely a happy medium. And then movie makers try to do that awkward thing where the heroine is able to help herself extremely well sometimes, but whenever the hero is around, she seems immobilized and can't even help him in common sense areas somehow. One of my favorite (or most cringe inducing) moments of "lack of common sense" is when Christine refuses to go into the water to try and help Raoul in Phantom of the Opera. Had it been my boyfriend being strangled by a crazy man, I swear I would have been on him like a wildcat, yet Christine seems held back by the knee deep water.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

yet Christine seems held back by the knee deep water.

Well, Phantom didn't seem to have a restroom after all, so you never know what was in the water.

But then Christine is a pretty standard Gothic heroine twit.

[crumpeteer.livejournal.com]

Comic book movie heroines are notorious for their lack of ability to save themselves when it's crunch time. They can kick butt until their romantic link has to save them from some hair brained villian's capture.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Well, if they could save themselves, the hero wouldn't be as heroic. Or something.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Christine is a pretty standard Gothic heroine twit

For a second there, I misread it has having an "a" in that last word...

But yeah. Christine is as dumb as a stump - which is why I didn't MarySue Drew in Ever After; if someone in the story has to be dumb as a stump to make the plot move, it's more than fair that it be the man once in a while.

why would you want that person in real life?

I don't. But I can enjoy watching people do things that I'd never want to do in life. I don't want to be a Mary Sue or a moron... but I also don't want to dodge dinosaurs, run from the Headless Horseman, or fall (in reality) for a Beast.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

if someone in the story has to be dumb as a stump to make the plot move, it's more than fair that it be the man once in a while.


Oh, I dislike it equally. I dislike Ever After as much as the next slasher flick where all the women run around like morons. I want to see a dumb man even less than a dumb woman (for me, heroes and not heroines are the story's draw).

I don't want to be a Mary Sue or a moron... but I also don't want to dodge dinosaurs, run from the Headless Horseman

True, but it's about motivation. You might not want to run from HH, but you can understand why that person in the story does. I fail to understand why competent heroes/heroines want a useless idiot for mate.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I fail to understand why competent heroes/heroines want a useless idiot for mate.

Oh, agreed. I just have a different setting for my "moron meter." When I was a kid, before VCRs, when I wanted to re-see the Disney movie 101 Dalmations, I was stuck reading the book, which is quite different. There's a scene that stuck with me forever.

Pongo's mate, Mrs. Pongo (Perdita was someone else), is learning the difference between left and right, as taught by Pongo and a scottish terrior. They tell her that she has a spot on her left foot. She asks if she turns around in the other direction if that's still her left.

After that breathtaking stupidity, rather than answering her question, the scottie tells Pongo, "You're a lucky man." I didn't understand at age 8 and I don't understand now why people think it's lucky to be able to "afford" to have someone that ignorant tied to them for life.

BTW, finally got a logon to Bollywhat's forums, & will be at Paheli on Saturday.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

finally got a logon to Bollywhat's forums, & will be at Paheli on Saturday

Great! Are you seeing it in MD or VA?

[ayn-rand-fan-13.livejournal.com]

I need to see that movie.
Drew Barrymore is a Mary Sue in almost every movie she makes.
I think that the romantic character relationships in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Hero, and House of Flying Daggers work really well with the helping out of both sides.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

VA. Jenny Ketcham has a Desi club that's going and I'm coming with them. Slowly but surely I'm being sucked in... :>