Slash rant

[dangermousie]

I hate the main idea of slash. I really do.

Nope, not homophobic. I exclude from my loathing of slash stories about same sex couples where it is merely continuing canon. All the fic in the world writing about Renault's Alexander and Hephaistion, or the two female leads of Deepa Mehta's "Fire" or even something where you could concievably read in a lover's relationship (e.g. Sirius and Remus. I don't see it, but I can see how one would) does not bother me one whit.

I mean all these stories where there is NO indication the canon characters are anything other than straight (and/or violently hate each other). Aragorn has faithfully loved Arwen for 60 years? Too bad, as in fanfic he is paired with Legolas. Harry Potter likes girls? Too bad. In fanfic he is Draco Malfoy's love slave (even though there is nothing redeemable about Draco in canon and the boys loathe each other. Harry/Neville would even be more plausible). Anakin is obsessive about Padme, and went to the Dark Side for her? But what do you know, fanon Anakin is too busy boinking Obi-Wan to care. Apparently, so many men are gay that it's amazing that the human race is managing to reproduce at all.

Basically, I find the notion that one cannot be really good friends (or even have a strong emotion like hatred) with a person of the same gender without wanting their naughty bits in one's mouth utterly revolting and a horrible (not to mention oversexed) view of the human nature.

I am very close to my best friend, who is female. We have been friends for almost a decade, talk on the phone every day, and share a hive mind on a lot of books, movies and other minutia. We help each other through problems and are hopefully there for each other. Yet, somehow we managed to avoid an unbridled lesbian orgy. I certainly don't think men are any different.

Hey, teenybopper girls who revel in slash between characters whose only claim to slashiness is that they are friends. How would you feel if everyone assumed you had sex with all your girlfriends merely because you hung out with them and were good friends? See? Absurd.

/rant

Flame away.

Comments

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Hehe. :-) I'll spare you a lecture on how
a) sometimes slash is a quasi-feminist/gay conscious subversion and a queering of pop culture into your own (underrepresented) worldview and a reclamation of power
b)er, I forgot what B was.

Teenybopper slash, now... Eh. It's not like the het these girls write (MarySues) is any better.

I think what you are is a canon nazi! :-D (And in most ways, so am I.)

[daygloparker.livejournal.com]

This is a driveby random comment to say YES! someone else who AGREES with me! We must band together and form a gang.

Slash Apologia

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

I think it depends how you look at fanfiction's relationship to the canon. All the stories of yours that I've read involve canon pairings, or interpolations of thoughts, or stuff that is well-suggested by the canon. Everyone comes to fanfic for different reasons.

But I think one of the interesting dimensions of fanfiction is exploring another way things could have gone. I read a brilliant LotR fic where Aragorn turned evil and took the ring. Obviously, this did not and could not have happened in the canon, but it was an amazing AU, that brought a deeper meaning to LotR for me, because it revealed the true power of the ring.

So, I kind of like that aspect of slash sometimes, of showing a different possiblity.

And even though it is all over the place online, the idea of women creating their own fantasies and dare-I-say-it porn is still kind of transgressive. I don't think a lot of slash writers are trying to say "this is how it happened", but more, this is how it could have happened and wouldn't it be cool if it did.

Hey, teenybopper girls who revel in slash between characters whose only claim to slashiness is that they are friends. How would you feel if everyone assumed you had sex with all your girlfriends merely because you hung out with them and were good friends? See? Absurd.

Unfortunately, I know a large number of annoying men who think just that about me and my girlfriends.

Another reason for the genesis of slash is that people wanted their favorite characters to be in romantic relationships with equals, and they saw no women who fit the description, since they were busy fainting and needing rescuing, so they put the character with a man.

I think that quality is sacrificed when EVERYONE is gay--I can't enjoy slash unless there is a lot of canon subtext, and it's not like everyone in Hogwarts is just banging merrily, so I agree that part of it bugs.

Re: Slash Apologia

[katranna.livejournal.com]

I think I've told her all that. :-D

>>Obviously, this did not and could not have happened in the canon, but it was an amazing AU, that brought a deeper meaning to LotR for me, because it revealed the true power of the ring.

But you, too, like plausibility in canon, I think?

I mean, I'm imagining that the Aragorn thing was well-developed; he didn't just snatch it away suddenly, yes?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

No flames, I've posted several similar rants.

How would you feel if everyone assumed you had sex with all your girlfriends merely because you hung out with them and were good friends?

Aren't the fundies doing that to us right now? Because many of the anti-same sex marriage laws say you can't have any of the "incidents of marriage" - including power of attorney, medical authority, or any other form of legal partnership with someone BECAUSE OMG TEH GAY!!!! YOU ONLY WANT THAT BEKUZ YOU'RE HAVING SEX YOU DIRTY HOMOS! YOUR GOING TO HELL!!!1111eleventyone!!!!!!

Uh, no. It's perfectly possible to want to form a business partnership with someone without banging them.

Re: Slash Apologia

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was well developed.

I graviate for good consistent characterization, good writing, and a pairing that doesn't totally squick me out.

So yes, I like there to be some plausibility in canon, not just their-hot-so-omg-they-must-be-boinking.

[leolandria.livejournal.com]

I personally find Obi-Wan and Anakin to be an icky pairing, anyway.

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

Nope, no flames from me, either.

In general, I find slash squicky. But there are good slash fics out there. Not a one of the good ones, though, pulls things out of thin air. They all have a patina of plausibility about them. Of course, the only ones I've finished reading were written by someone who has a clue how to write, and, for that matter, doesn't portray the otherwise canonically straight characters as gay.

Does that make sense?

What really freaks me out is this stuff I've been seeing on crack_van with real people slashed, not just fictional characters. I just can't fathom that. O_o

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Why squicky? :-P

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Or, in other words, I think what you mean is that you like your fic to be well-written and either canon-supported, or plausibly-developed.

Whether it be slash or het, etc. Because Aragorn going for a random hobbit girl would make you just as annoyed, right?

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

We shall be known as The S.L.A.S.H.E.R.S. ( Slash Loathing, Arrogant, Sinister, Highly Exclusive and Right Society)

[daygloparker.livejournal.com]

Now I want a jacket.

[katranna.livejournal.com]

But you can't hate Syd/Marc slash! Or R2D2/C-3PO!

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

No, but, see, it only works that way for MEN. Women can be just friends. That's fine. But men who like each other, you KNOW there's a blowjob in there somehow.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I wear my slash goggles proudly. I blame Buffy-dom.

There are pairings I cannot see (90% of HP slash fits here, Sirius/Remus being the lone exception, most LotR) and pairings that leap out and grab me by the throat. (Kirk/Spock, Starsky/Hutch, etc)

I like there to be at least some subtext (a couple of once-overs and a prolonged eye-fuck are fine, lots of touching and constant space-invasion are better), and some ambiguity about orientation in the canon texts. Starsky and Hutch buy a house together, canonically. (My dad may have shared houses with single male friends, but they RENTED)

I believe in bisexuality, and the way you can go for years not knowing until bammo! you fall in love with someone who is of the same sex. This is, however, more common in women than men.

Re: Slash Apologia

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes, but for most people, sexual orientation is not a matter of a "different interpetation." Unless you are bisexual, you are not going to wake up next to a man and say "I think I want to fall for a girl next" and after a few weeks of it, switch back.

There is a difference between AU and out-of-character. The Ring can tempt anyone (and does). In the movie at least, Aragorn is clearly tempted. I could see having a plausible AU where he slowly gets seduced by the Ring and goes evil. It is quite different to have him switch sexual orientation. Most people don't just flip theirs on/off at will. It strikes me just as OOC for Aragorn to fancy a man as if there was a fanfic that portrayed Aragorn as evil from childhood.

this is how it could have happened and wouldn't it be cool if it did.

I am (as katranna correctly pointed out) a canon Nazi. But I can buy AU as long as it's logical. However, when it goes explicitly against the original author's writing and/or world-view, it gets truly problematic. To leave slash out of the picture, I would find it really annoying to read a Potter fic where Draco is a misunderstood sweet thing, Potter is a bully, and Voldemort is right about Muggle-elimination.

I know a large number of annoying men who think just that about me and my girlfriends.

Well, then their minds are just as much in the gutter as the teenybopper slashers'. I still think both are ridiculous.

the idea of women creating their own fantasies and dare-I-say-it porn is still kind of transgressive

I suppose. I happen not to care for NC-17 fic myself, whether slash, het, conon or not, because I like to keep private things private, but whatever rocks the author's boat. However, one can write plenty of het and slash NC-17 explicitness without completely subverting the original story. Heck, all the LOTR slashers are welcome to play with the Silmarillion as there is a lot more plausible slashy stuff there than in LOTR.

But it's the underlying assumption that there is no such thing as friendship. Only lust, that bugs me. It's the same way as if someone started writing Chiana/Crichton fanfic based on nothing more but the fact they are really great friends, despite the indubitable Crichton/Aeryn. Not everything is about sex, after all.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have no problem with slash that is canon-based (and by that I don't mean the two people will confess their love in front of a band of witnesses). Heck, even if the characters haven't been attached to anyone else and there is no hint about their preference (e.g. Sirius, Remus) then fine. It's the slash of really straight characters that annoys me. That, and the implied in the above, sexualization of friendship. I.e whole "my proof they are a couple? Well, why else would they hang out." But then, HP fandom is the lovely place that came up with twincest.

I believe in bisexuality, and the way you can go for years not knowing until bammo! you fall in love with someone who is of the same sex.

Well, yes, obviously bisexuality is real. But statistically speaking, it's a small percentage of the population. However, according to fanfic, it would appear that 90% of men are bisexual which is just plain dumb.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

ROFL.

Yes, I would think that if there is so much slash out there, there should be as much femmeslash as well. You know, if Harry and Draco could be doing the deed even though they loathe each other, then Hermione and Ginny simply must be getting it on because they like each other. But no...femmeslash is far and few between.

This is the inverse version of those salacious paintings of lesbians done in 19th century for rich male patrons.

Btw, just as I am confused about what makes two lesbians attractive to a man (hey, they are lesbians. They don't want you!) I am confused about what makes slash appealing to women.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

has a clue how to write, and, for that matter, doesn't portray the otherwise canonically straight characters as gay.


Oh yes, that makes perfect sense.

real people slashed, not just fictional characters

I find real people stories (slash, het, gen what not) really disgusting, frightening and WRONG.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes. Not only dramatically uncanon, there is the whole rather incestuous air about it.

Btw, icon? To die for.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Uh, no. It's perfectly possible to want to form a business partnership with someone without banging them.

Exactly. That is a a bit OT, but I find the paranoia ridiculous. If I was single and rooming with a really good friend and had no other family, it would be a convenient thing to have.

Re: Slash Apologia

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

their-hot-so-omg-they-must-be-boinking.

And that is the category that annoys me by far the most :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Syd/Marc?

And R2D2/C-3PO have no gender :D

Re: Slash Apologia

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

Well, and I would probably say that there is some basis for Chiana/Crichton in some situation because there is some heavy flirting and induendo at various points.

I'm not sure if the underlying assumption is that there is no such thing as friendship but that friendship is not the only possible relationship between men, just as romance is not the only possible relationship between a man and a woman.

But as you say, your enjoyment of fanfic hinges on it being very true to canon, including the way the character's sexual orientation is represented. That's not everyone's basis for enjoying fanfic. I don't actually read as much true-to-canon fanfic because I've already seen/read/consumed the canon, I don't need a rehash of it. I'd rather see what didn't happen in canon, like a different sexual orientation. I agree with whomever below if it presented as falling in love with someone or being bisexual it is much more realistic than if it's OMG-didn't-you-know-they-were-always-gay. According to Kinsey most people are on the continuum between gay and straight, rather than strictly one or the other, and I don't mind seeing that reflected in fic.

All this is more in the abstract, though. Communities where the posters spend all their time saying, wow they are such good friends they must be sleeping together lose my interest pretty quickly, because--as you say, oversexed and unrealistic. Probably explains why my participation in fandom is spotty and I tend to leave quickly.

Re: Slash Apologia

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

Ooops, meant to say "they're".

Tout a son gout.

It is really annoying to write a well thought out het story and have it dismissed by teeny boppers who are all: "Oh, I only read slash."