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dangermousieYes, Hot Boys. Because of course, I watch doramas for the PLOT. Ahem.
This picspam is about some dorama eye candy that I haven't profiled before. I did a humongous F4 picspam a few weeks back (Jerry Yan, Vic Chou, Vannes Wu and Ken Chu) here, a hot pic of Takizawa Hideaki here, a Vic Chou centric picspam of Silence here, a Jerry Yan and Vic Chou picspam here, Wu Zun in Tokyo Juliet here, a full of pretty bous picspam of Goong here and a Rain-centric picspam of Full House here. I am definitely raiding that factory that is producing those.
The pictures range from hot to WTF, and sometimes both in the same photo.
A little taste (Joo Ji Hoon, the male lead of Goong):
Yeah, you can't see faces. I just like the pic:
No, I don't know what's up with the lipstick.
To prove that I am not completely devoid of brains all the time, I've been thinking on and off about the role of women in doramas and finally decided to write my thoughts down. No doubt this is due in part to a self-selection (I tend to pick doramas that have been recommended to me), but I am fascinated (and often pleased) by the portrayal of women in doramas as opposed to mediums like Bollywood.
Doramas obviously operate in a world of much more traditional societ(ies) than one I live in. But what is interesting to me is that the dorama world seems to be full of interesting and complicated women and men who give them their due. The societies, frex, tend to stress the woman's role as a domestic partner (women are often expected to retire upon marriage) but in doramas that is often not the case.
I am thinking here of Tokyo Juliet, where the heroine's primary dream is to be a premier fashion designer and she has a running half-joking competition with her bf as to who will be tops. What struck me most about that scenario is when she gets an award for her work, he takes time off to cook a dinner and celebrate. He is genuinely helpful and encouraging of her professional dream and her professional competition with him.
In Korean dorama Full House, not only does our heroine end up with becoming a successful screenwriter, but the male lead of the show, in spite of always calling her a dummy to her face (they are a bickering couple after all), is genuinely pleased with her success. When she gets her screenplay approved, he spends hours decorating the house and doing the dinner thing, and he is certainly taking her draft novel all over the place. And they end up both cleaning the house, too :)
Majo No Jouken deals with an older woman-younger man love story that is not condemned and in fact, love is shown to have blossomed the woman into a better professional (teacher) than she was before. And there seems to be a subset of older woman-younger man stories in jdramas where the woman is the professional, bread winner of the two (e.g. Kimi wa petto). Long Vacation adresses the issue of ageism explicitly, actually.
Or there is Mars, where both members of the couple genuinely encourage each other in their dreams. Qi-Luo isn't what I'd call a bra-burning feminist. She is actually a very retiring person by nature. But not only does having someone understand and interact with her give her a spine, Ling also encourages her drawing (she is a very good painter) and is quite proud of her skills.
Even in something like Meteor Garden/Hana Yori Dango, where the question of profession doesn't come up, the heroine wins the love of the hero by being strong and standing up to his bullying and in fact turning the tables and smacking him. And she is constantly taking care of herself. And he explicitly tells her that he loves her for that strong-mindedness.
And then we have Goong which in some ways is extremely feminist. Not just in the conventional 'warm hearted heroine changes her man' (CG doesn't let Shin boss her around and in fact bosses him a bit herself). But the Palace fight about power is in reality between the two mothers of the two potential candidates, not much by the candidates themselves. And CG's parents are the unusual couple where the mother is the ambitious go-getter with a high pressure job and her father is the house husband. And at the end, after all the fuss about who will be the next ruler, it's none of the men, it's a woman.
In fact, and connected to that, I find it interesting that doramas seem to be the only medium so far (as opposed to Hollywood and Bollywood) where a girl chasing a man (or falling for him first and he reciprocates later) is not only a common trope but is looked upon affectionately. The heroine does it and gets her man (one only has to look at the wildly successful It Started with a Kiss). Even when it's not overt chasing the woman often falls in love and confesses her feelings first (see Full House, or Goong). And it's not looked down on. Even when a third leg of a triangle does it, as in Goong or Full House, even that woman ends up being portrayed in a sympathetic light. In fact Meteor Garden/Hana Yori Dango is unusual among the doramas I've seen in the fact that it's the guy doing all the chasing (I love that and won't mind seeing more of it :P).
On the other side of the coin, some doramas like their heroines on a bit of a ditzy side. Part of it because of melodrama conventions: if everyone was bright and communicative, a lot of issues wouldn't occur. CG in Goong is adorable but she is also rather dim intellectually. Her OTP Shin is miles brighter than she is (but to be fair, CG matures a lot throughout and she is also the ditziest of the dorama heroines I've seen). The same can be said of the heroine of It Started with a Kiss.
And this brings me to the last topic of this long ramble: sex and depiction of men. It was![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
lesbiassparrow that pointed out that doramas shoot their heroes exactly the way they shoot their heroines: there is an equal fetization of male beauty. And that's true (the same is true of Bollywood). I wonder why, as both Bollywood and doramas are produced by more concervative societies. As to sex scenes, I just want to mention that the few I've seen (Mars is the only one actually, but I know there is one in Devil Beside You), the amount or lack of skin shown is equal for both genders (it bugs me to no end in HW movies that women are buck naked but men are dressed) and the sex scene in Mars (or the aftermath of on in MnJ) are both narratively necessary.
And that is the end of the long ramble.
This picspam is about some dorama eye candy that I haven't profiled before. I did a humongous F4 picspam a few weeks back (Jerry Yan, Vic Chou, Vannes Wu and Ken Chu) here, a hot pic of Takizawa Hideaki here, a Vic Chou centric picspam of Silence here, a Jerry Yan and Vic Chou picspam here, Wu Zun in Tokyo Juliet here, a full of pretty bous picspam of Goong here and a Rain-centric picspam of Full House here. I am definitely raiding that factory that is producing those.
The pictures range from hot to WTF, and sometimes both in the same photo.
A little taste (Joo Ji Hoon, the male lead of Goong):
Yeah, you can't see faces. I just like the pic:
No, I don't know what's up with the lipstick.
To prove that I am not completely devoid of brains all the time, I've been thinking on and off about the role of women in doramas and finally decided to write my thoughts down. No doubt this is due in part to a self-selection (I tend to pick doramas that have been recommended to me), but I am fascinated (and often pleased) by the portrayal of women in doramas as opposed to mediums like Bollywood.
Doramas obviously operate in a world of much more traditional societ(ies) than one I live in. But what is interesting to me is that the dorama world seems to be full of interesting and complicated women and men who give them their due. The societies, frex, tend to stress the woman's role as a domestic partner (women are often expected to retire upon marriage) but in doramas that is often not the case.
I am thinking here of Tokyo Juliet, where the heroine's primary dream is to be a premier fashion designer and she has a running half-joking competition with her bf as to who will be tops. What struck me most about that scenario is when she gets an award for her work, he takes time off to cook a dinner and celebrate. He is genuinely helpful and encouraging of her professional dream and her professional competition with him.
In Korean dorama Full House, not only does our heroine end up with becoming a successful screenwriter, but the male lead of the show, in spite of always calling her a dummy to her face (they are a bickering couple after all), is genuinely pleased with her success. When she gets her screenplay approved, he spends hours decorating the house and doing the dinner thing, and he is certainly taking her draft novel all over the place. And they end up both cleaning the house, too :)
Majo No Jouken deals with an older woman-younger man love story that is not condemned and in fact, love is shown to have blossomed the woman into a better professional (teacher) than she was before. And there seems to be a subset of older woman-younger man stories in jdramas where the woman is the professional, bread winner of the two (e.g. Kimi wa petto). Long Vacation adresses the issue of ageism explicitly, actually.
Or there is Mars, where both members of the couple genuinely encourage each other in their dreams. Qi-Luo isn't what I'd call a bra-burning feminist. She is actually a very retiring person by nature. But not only does having someone understand and interact with her give her a spine, Ling also encourages her drawing (she is a very good painter) and is quite proud of her skills.
Even in something like Meteor Garden/Hana Yori Dango, where the question of profession doesn't come up, the heroine wins the love of the hero by being strong and standing up to his bullying and in fact turning the tables and smacking him. And she is constantly taking care of herself. And he explicitly tells her that he loves her for that strong-mindedness.
And then we have Goong which in some ways is extremely feminist. Not just in the conventional 'warm hearted heroine changes her man' (CG doesn't let Shin boss her around and in fact bosses him a bit herself). But the Palace fight about power is in reality between the two mothers of the two potential candidates, not much by the candidates themselves. And CG's parents are the unusual couple where the mother is the ambitious go-getter with a high pressure job and her father is the house husband. And at the end, after all the fuss about who will be the next ruler, it's none of the men, it's a woman.
In fact, and connected to that, I find it interesting that doramas seem to be the only medium so far (as opposed to Hollywood and Bollywood) where a girl chasing a man (or falling for him first and he reciprocates later) is not only a common trope but is looked upon affectionately. The heroine does it and gets her man (one only has to look at the wildly successful It Started with a Kiss). Even when it's not overt chasing the woman often falls in love and confesses her feelings first (see Full House, or Goong). And it's not looked down on. Even when a third leg of a triangle does it, as in Goong or Full House, even that woman ends up being portrayed in a sympathetic light. In fact Meteor Garden/Hana Yori Dango is unusual among the doramas I've seen in the fact that it's the guy doing all the chasing (I love that and won't mind seeing more of it :P).
On the other side of the coin, some doramas like their heroines on a bit of a ditzy side. Part of it because of melodrama conventions: if everyone was bright and communicative, a lot of issues wouldn't occur. CG in Goong is adorable but she is also rather dim intellectually. Her OTP Shin is miles brighter than she is (but to be fair, CG matures a lot throughout and she is also the ditziest of the dorama heroines I've seen). The same can be said of the heroine of It Started with a Kiss.
And this brings me to the last topic of this long ramble: sex and depiction of men. It was
lesbiassparrow that pointed out that doramas shoot their heroes exactly the way they shoot their heroines: there is an equal fetization of male beauty. And that's true (the same is true of Bollywood). I wonder why, as both Bollywood and doramas are produced by more concervative societies. As to sex scenes, I just want to mention that the few I've seen (Mars is the only one actually, but I know there is one in Devil Beside You), the amount or lack of skin shown is equal for both genders (it bugs me to no end in HW movies that women are buck naked but men are dressed) and the sex scene in Mars (or the aftermath of on in MnJ) are both narratively necessary.And that is the end of the long ramble.
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no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:14 pm (UTC)And...I've always thought that, all things considered, most of the manga and anime we get over here is fairly girl-power, once you take the culture into effect.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:33 pm (UTC)I think the main reason that (at least in jdoramas) males are photographed and portrayed so beautifully (imo sometimes much more so than the female characters) is because of the traditional cultural concept of bishounen in Japan, and also the fact that they are specifically catering to a very large female base who wants to see this.
The Japanese are very discreet about any and all affection shown publicly (even in front of close friends or family). (Incidentally, one of my Japanese culture books addresses this and the fact that in Japanese, they don't say "I love you." The direct translation for what they DO say is literally translated as "I like you," which is the strongest romantic thing they have.
Well, you've probably heard me say most of this before..;)
Mike He is HOT! :D And so is Takki...*goes off to watch the "Ho Summer" PV again*
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:38 pm (UTC)PRETTY BOYS. PRETTY GIRLS. PRETTY GIRLS IN COOL CLOTHING.
You are a wonderful person.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:44 pm (UTC)Is it in any way possible to produce a link? *beg beg beg* 'Devil Beside You' is on my short list of doramas to watch (though I have no idea if I'll get to it before I go to Japan) so I'll let you know if it's any good.
Incidentally, one of my Japanese culture books addresses this and the fact that in Japanese, they don't say "I love you." The direct translation for what they DO say is literally translated as "I like you," which is the strongest romantic thing they have.
That's really interesting. Also, you have just solved a puzzle that has been bugging me for months! I remember being struck, in watching Meteor Garden, that the whole thing revolved around the female character telling the male one she liked him (aka he was wooing her to say it and she finally said it by the end) and I kept thinking 'what is the big deal about liking? How come neither of them mentions 'love.'") Now I am wondering if it's a similar thing in Chinese or because MG was adapted from a Japanese manga.
I do wonder how they distinguish between gradations of like. I mean, I like grapes and I like my husband. But I also love him and the gradation of like is quite severe.
So needless to say, any/all sex scenes at least in jdoramas are going to be very discreet, and so will the morning after scenes - for both the male and female characters
I rather like that. You can show a lot without giving us the full monty.
I think the main reason that (at least in jdoramas) males are photographed and portrayed so beautifully (imo sometimes much more so than the female characters) is because of the traditional cultural concept of bishounen in Japan, and also the fact that they are specifically catering to a very large female base who wants to see this.
True. I suppose that is also true (to a greater or lesser degree) in the other countries' doramas. But I really wonder about Bollywood, though. It's not a predominantly female cinema in India (not any more than an average HW movie is here). So I wonder about the difference.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 06:45 pm (UTC)most of the manga and anime we get over here is fairly girl-power, once you take the culture into effect.
True!
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 07:11 pm (UTC)And because I ought to do more than just gape - I was talking with a friend recently about the photography and filming in doramas and Bollywood and their treatment of men, and they pointed out how Frodo is shot in Lord of the Rings. She argued that he is lit like a female lead, with this translucent quality shown to his skin - her argument was that in that case it was because of his passive suffering and patience with his burden, which are often stereotypical characteristics of women in literature (aka Fanny Price).
And the more I thought about it, the more I agreed. So I guess this stuff goes on in the West too (and we have our share of pretty boys and very pretty boybands), just (obviously) not to the same degree. Look at the way Neo is fetishized in The Matrix Trilogy as well: there's something very deliberately odd and feminine (I think) about the lighting he gets in the first film.
There's a long tradition of praising boys' beauty in feminine terms in the West, but I think we've buried it more.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 07:18 pm (UTC)It's not like that...the phrase (or phrases) that is used is only used in the context of speaking of romantic love, but it's literal translation is not stronger than "like." In our western minds we can translate it to "love" but they do not have a word for that, per se.
My book describes the following phrases:Often in jdoramas you will hear the phrase that goes something like "I want to stay by your side" or "I will always stay by your side." This is the ultimate romantic statement, and yes it literally means marriage and committment (not just a pretty thing to say) - it's a proposal or an affirmation of a marriage committment.
Ahem. Maybe more than you wanted to know...
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 07:29 pm (UTC)Your examples are apt, however - both Frodo and Neo are photographed and portrayed in a different way than we see many Hollywood heroes. This may have something to do with the directors' very non-Hollywood visions, as well, for both films.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 07:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 08:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 08:46 pm (UTC)I've noticed that too in the KDramas I've seen, though I've only seen a few, it's definitely a pattern I noticed. Goong is actually the first KDrama I saw in which the characters actually made out; in both Full House and Endless Love, there were a few little kisses here and there, but nothing that you'd cringe at if you were watching it with your parents (it's weird to me to see sexy stuff with my parents around, lol)
Honestly, that is one of the reasons why I do like KDramas so much (I've yet to watch any JDramas, but I can see myself enjoying those too!) because it's almost refreshing to watch something in which people aren't going at it every other scene. It all seems to be focused more on an innocent type of romance, rather than getting it on, so to speak. :P
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 08:59 pm (UTC)And because I don't just want to squeal about how good looking the guys are, let me say that I really love your points of view concerning the equality between the characters and positivity among the female roles. A lot of your points actually never crossed my mind, but now that you've brought it up with such good examples, I definitely agree. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 09:00 pm (UTC)True. Taiwanese dramas seem to be a bit more explicit than that but still, nothing to speak of. Mars and Tokyo Juliet had sex scenes but you didn't see any skin (and in Mars, it is my favorite scene in the whole show because it's absolutely crucial to thr story as the heroine is a rape victim who can't bear to be touched and for her to ask her bf to make love to her is a huge huge deal. When she starts freaking out and he tells her to open her eyes and see that it's him I...guuuuuuh. And in TJ it was all sweet and fun and natural and sort of part of their relationship). I really do like the approach to that in doramas.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 09:02 pm (UTC)Ooooh Joo Ji Hoon.
Indeed :)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 09:02 pm (UTC)It is refreshing, isn't it! And in some ways, it makes the rewards of a happy ending even sweeter. That being said, there is a lot of frustration with the badness of jdorama kisses (some of which has been discusses in a couple different comment threads in these posts). I don't mind the discreetness or absence of jdorama sex scenes at all, but I wish the kisses would be better.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 10:45 pm (UTC)Definitely! Took the words right out of my mouth. Or...took them out of my fingers, since I'm typing.
Also, I know exactly what you mean about kissing scenes. I've yet to see any JDramas (but reading some of your posts have made me really interested in seeing some!) but in Full House for example, the two kissing scenes were sort of...lacking?? I know I said I sort of like the absence of sexual scenes and I hate to sound like I'm contradicting myself, but when there IS a scene, I'd like it to have a little more emotion I guess.
I was reading through some of the posts in the link you gave me and one person described it as 'plastic kissing' which I think is a perfect term. :D
(I have to say though that there's a really hot kissing scene in the KDrama Goong...so good for them, hahah!)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 10:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 10:52 pm (UTC)I really hate to sound like a prude and I know I probably come off sounding that way, but I just love how intimacy in dramas is treated; it's all very sweet and slow, and sometimes it takes 17 episodes before the two main characters even really touch eachother (though sometimes at that point I'm yelling "KISS HER YOU IDIOT!" because I lose my patience too ;))
no subject
Date: 2006-08-24 10:56 pm (UTC)I do love the fact that intimacy (both physical and emotional) in doramas is so well developed and gradual. E.g. in Full House, the fact that their relationship developed so slowly really made sense and I really bought the emotional truth of them falling for each other.
though sometimes at that point I'm yelling "KISS HER YOU IDIOT!" because I lose my patience too
I do that a lot (Goong is going to make me lose my voice :P)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 01:23 am (UTC)And I can totally understand the whole 'losing your voice' thing at Goong. It gets really frustrating near the end. But how addicting, right?
You are too cool. I'm going to friend you, if that's alright. :D
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 01:46 am (UTC)I know, Full House ate my life. When I wasn't watching it, I was posting about it. And I got so ridiculously attached to the characters! When YJ made that marriage proposal at the end of 15 I literally screamed. And when he kisses her in that tent in 16. OMG. OMG. And the cutest scenes with them eating on the street. OK, I get derailed when FH is mentioned...
It gets really frustrating near the end. But how addicting, right?
exactly. I am at the end of ep 22 now (though I got almost no sleep last night watching Goong, I can't stop) and Shin has just been lured in and the evil QM started the fire and ARGH!
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 05:09 am (UTC)The whole thing about how it's the women that are taking the lead can be aptly summed up in Shin's friends' advice to Shin: to watch out, because nowadays, it's the women pouncing on the men!
BY THE WAY, THAT'S A REALLY HOT PICTURE SPAM. (My family was looking at me oddly as I clutched the computer screen and giggled hysterically.)
♥♥♥
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 05:31 am (UTC)Hee. Thanks. I love pretty boys picspams. My fave picspam is still the F4 one linked above, and not just because they were all in Meteor Garden. It's because of all the huge amount of pics :P I have another one coming up tomorrow (of Mike He, the last guy of the three).
The whole thing about how it's the women that are taking the lead can be aptly summed up in Shin's friends' advice to Shin: to watch out, because nowadays, it's the women pouncing on the men!
ROFL. So true...
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 06:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 06:38 pm (UTC)Either way I'm not complaining: I'm all for the pretty people and the softly lit men!
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 07:51 pm (UTC)And Full House really was great, just talking to you about it is making me want to go watch it for the millionth time. And how cute is your icon. Soul food! :D
no subject
Date: 2006-08-25 08:31 pm (UTC)Full House Full House Full House Full House! Yeah. This was the only one that came close to displacing my first great dorama love 'Mars.'
I know, Goong is evil. I am literally nauseous with lack of sleep.