My thoughts on RotS (spoilers behind cuts)

[dangermousie]

Long long reaction. Behind the cut so as to save spoilerphobes.

I have also had two double espressos but hopefully this still makes sense…

This is such a story of contrasts.

We start with Anakin risking his life to save Obi-Wan, fighting side by side. We end with them fighting to the death.

We start with Anakin Skywalker, poster book Jedi, hero of the Republic. We end with Lord Vader, a Sith Lord, minion of the Empire.

We start with a man who sees all the beauty of the Universe in Padme’s face. We end with the man who Force-chokes her and (rightly) blames himself for her death. It is his fault she has no will to live.

We start with a man who cannot bring himself to execute Dooku when he is on his knees, even though he is a Sith Lord who threatens all Anakin holds most dear and who has cut off his arm. We end with a man who has slaughtered Jedi children.

We start with a Jedi who is sickened by giving in and killing Dooku. We end with a Sith who kills Separatist leaders as they beg for mercy with joy in his heart and what (if it wasn’t so horrifying) would pass for banter.

We start with a man who is desperately afraid of losing those he loves. And we end with a man without fear. Because he has nothing left to lose. Because he has lost everyone already.

We start with a young man who has everything. And we end with a wreck of a being who has nothing. No one.

And yet, it makes such horribly perfect sense. And that is why the story is good.

This book should have been subtitled “The Road to hell is paved with good intentions” Or Achebe’s “Things fall apart” Anakin’s desire is to save others. He is selfless in that regard. He is never worried about his own life. When Palpatine tells him that the Dark Arts cannot prolong the user’s life (i.e. Anakin's), but only the lives of others, you don’t see Anakin going “Oops. Must start from scratch now.” It does not check him for a moment. He doesn’t care. But of course, his desire is selfish as well. Neither Obi-Wan nor Padme are in the least suicidal, but they would both gladly die to prevent Anakin from becoming Vader, or even to stop the war. So it is his desires he is following, not theirs.

And that brings me to Anakin’s fear. The fear that consumes him. In a way, it is both a bad thing (it is what makes him susceptible to Palpatine after all), and a good thing as it is his connection to humanity. Darth Vader feels no fear (for a while at least). Which I find fascinating…

Throughout RotS, the image I have of Anakin is someone clinging to sanity and control by bloody fingernails, as they are being pried open one by one. And he knows that. And he can’t stop it. And that makes him lose it all the more. And, IMO, that is in part why he gives in. He wants the pain to stop. And that is why he cuts so loose. It’s (IMO) a reaction to not having to fight for sanity any more, but just revel in free fall.

Much more later, but for now I need to think some more.

Comments

[jonaki.livejournal.com]

I am not a Star Wars fan but I feel compelled to say something b/c you seem to be so into it!

So ummm...good stuff?

:)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

LOL! And thanks...

Don't worry, more BW stuff coming soon.

Btw, love the icon!

[jonaki.livejournal.com]

No worries...you post about whatever you feel like and I will try to comment!

Thanks, my icon is a painting by Jack Vettriano called Yesterday's Dreams. I also like Only the Darkest Shade of Red, and The Singing Butler. I find his work to have an old world feel (romantic and mysterious).

You can check out some of his work here:

http://bertc.com/subtwo/gallery_30.htm

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

I'm bookmarking this and reading it later, after I finish the book! :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Woo-hoo! I can't wait to read your thoughts...you are usually really insightful!

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I have never heard of him before, but now am really intrigued as I love the light and shadows...

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Thank you! I really want to read what you have to say now, but I think I'll have more of a perspective once I read the novel. Hopefully, I'll be able to finish it in some sort of timely fashion. :)

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yay! Is excited and anticipating...

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

And I'm back to this one, too! :) You're absolutely right. It is a story of contrasts. In fact...you wrote this so well, I'm not even sure what else to say. I think Anakin is afraid of his feelings because they are painful and because the Jedi have taught him they are wrong . It's wrong to be afraid, it's wrong to be angry, it's even wrong to love passionately. So, he can't ever come to terms with those feelings. If he had ever gotten an, "You know what, Anakin? It's all right that you feel this way. It's human. But here's how you should deal with it rationally..." from the Jedi, then his arc would have been different. Instead, when faced with the ultimate test, he turns to the Sith, because the Sith teach him to consider his feelings, to ponder them, embrace them - and then the most frightening thing of all...to crush them. I honestly think that Anakin is so momentarily exhilirated by the freedom of "having no fear" he has no idea what the ramifications will be of him slaughtering innocent victims. Anakin Skywalker would never have murdered children like that, but for a brief period of time he loses his identity. Vader has no identity. Vader is, basically, a mindless minion. He has no feelings, no regard for others, no thought for anything except what he must selfishly do. Anakin isn't brought back until that split second when he thinks Padme has betrayed him and he Force-chokes her. That? Is all Anakin. The fight with Obi-Wan isn't Vader. It's Anakin. Anakin and all his fear and anger and ill-fated love exploding like some sort of meteror shower, and the pieces rain down on those who care for him most. And afterwards, when he's rebuilt, he's trapped forever as Anakin, knowing what he's done. I think to deal with that, he does become Vader, that villain without a trace of goodness in him, because it's the only way he can possibly handle his guilt. Anakin doesn't return until he discovers his son (and later, daughter) are alive. And then that fighting instinct to save what he loves returns, and he again disregards any fear of his own death, and does what he should have done two decades before. He kills Palpatine, the only true enemy he ever had.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

You always write such eloquent posts (not to mention you seem to live in my head, because you always know what I want to say *g*).

And of course, the moment of no fear is illusory. He needs reassurance as soon as he is on Musafar. He was able to down his fear for a bit, but it rose up again. He gave up all that was true and honest and good in his life. for an illusion.

Yes, Vader is almost a dissasociative disorder for him at the start. He percieves Vader as "someone else he brought forth" And of course at the end, he realizes that is not the case at all. I am very anxious about how this will come across on screen.

Also, he thinks his wife and kids are dead. I wonder if he would have turned back then and there if he knew of the twins? Also, I guess he now thinks his dreams are avoidable (Padme didn't die in childbirth, he killed her (or so he thinks)), but the alternative is of course worse.

The moment where his universe destroying rage and grief is incapable of harming Palpatine because he was so diminished in the Force and when he realizes the trap of the dark Side: you cannot use it for good and to save someone else you love, you are always doomed to be alone (and Anakin's pathological fear of harm to his loved ones stems from his horrible fear of loneliness) is heart-wrenching. And at the end, when he doesn't even wish to destroy Palps because he forgives and that is the only forgiveness he can have, and he understands his abasement. Argh. He is more a slave than he ever was, and more lonely than he could be in his worst nightmare. And self-blame and loathing is unimaginable. No wonder Vader is almost like a distinct different person. He almost has to "split" to stay even somewhat sane.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

Thank you!! :) Well, you always manage to begin what I want to say and then because of your ideas, I can add to it. This is why I *heart* fandoms so much!

Giving up everything for an illusion is such a tragic, yet universal, idea. He feels empowered for a few short, truly evil moments, because he thinks he has destroyed his fear. But the moment "Anakin" begins to reappear from the heart of "Vader," he realizes the poison of that fear (which was such an amazing metaphor in the book) is still flowing in him.

I'm anxious about how all this pathos will come across as well, because we can't get that inner stream of conciousness and I want the Vader/Anakin realization to be really profound in the film...

I wonder if he would have turned back then and there if he knew of the twins? That's a good point. What would he have done had he found out the twins had survived? I can't imagine he would have harmed them, especially at that vulnerable moment when he realizes he killed Padme. I think it might have turned him back, but at that point, the Emperor would have killed them, and probably Anakin along with them. They needed to have those years to grow up so that they could destroy the regime their father helped to create. And so he becomes a slave to the Shadow and a slave to the Empire, and a slave to his own feelings of grief and all-consuming guilt.

Anakin's pathological fear of harm to his loved ones stems from his horrible fear of loneliness Wow, I love the way you phrased that. How very true. He never wants to be alone. Every time he's alone, he gets those nightmarish feelings of loss. In the end, when he makes that heart-wrenching realization that " yourself is all you'll ever have," it's his ultimate surrender to the Dark Side. He has nothing but the Dark Side and selfishness to keep him going, and that is what truly creates the menacing, calculating Darth Vader that we see in the OT. Until the scene in ESB when Palpatine suggests that this Rebel named Luke Skywalker is Anakin's son. That becomes the moment that begins his transformation back, because he never wants Luke harmed. He wants Luke to join him, which is another illusion fed by the Dark Side, but I think what he really wants is for Luke to be with him. For someone he loves to once again be at his side, so that he is no longer alone. But Luke manages to do the opposite, bringing Anakin to his side and leading him to never be alone, because in death his love for Padme is finally realized as he is reunited with his son and in turn, with Obi-Wan. It doesn't fix all the damage he did to the galaxy, the lives that Vader took, but Anakin again joins with the light. Perhaps that's the balance he was always supposed to create to begin with.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I think we should post this in crumpeteer's thread.

Once again, so right. I never thought of Luke as a way out of Vader's loneliness. Anakin is afraid of being alone. If you think about it, that's because in his early life the only shield he had against the harshness and powerlessness of his life was his Mother and the bond they had. And of course, being given up by her to the Jedi and seeing Qui-Gon killed really leads to his issues with abandonment.

Anakin needs people. He needs them so much that he tries to form a bond with Obi-Wan (successfully) that is much stronger than the proper detateched Jedi model. He craves love and companionship so much that he idealizes a girl he saw years ago. He needs them so much that once he enters a relationship with Padme she becomes his whole world. And the tragedy of Vader is that he has no one. He sticks to Emperor because there is no one else, a twisted shadow of his need, but still better than nothing. And of course Palpatine knows of Anakin's weakness, which is why he positions himself as someone Anakin loves, knowing how much Anakin prises these bonds, and that Anakin always puts personal ahead of abstract ideals.

Of course, Anakin's love has breaking points. He is so utterly loyal to people (though not to ideals) that he expects the same fierce loyalty in return. Palpatine manipulates that as well, playing on Anakin's loyalty and his stringent test for those "worthy" of his love.

The Jedi don't realize this. They ask him to do a dishonest/underhanded thing (spying on a man he considers friend). When Palpy asks him to be evil, he is offering straight-forward course, no sneaking, no pretending (in Anakin's view. Of course, he is being a puppet, but he doesn't realize that).

Luke is in many ways an avatar of Padme (just as Leia is of Anakin. I think she would have been much more easily turned). Padme's love is unconditional and she will always believe in Anakin's goodness. So is Luke, and with much less evidence, which is the miracle of forgiveness that redeems Anakin and is the centerpiece of Star Wars.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

I think we should, too! :)

I do think that he in some ways feels abandoned by both his mother and Qui-Gon, you're right. She lets him go and Qui-Gon is the first real death he experiences. He was torn from his mother and then lost his first true father-figure, it's not a wonder that he's so afraid of separation. And then, of course, her horribly violent death (it's much worse in the novelization, I sobbed when I read what had happened to her), is the first fracture in his already fragile soul.

This is sort of off-topic, but I was thinking how Obi-Wan makes that decision to leave Anakin on the molten banks of Mustafar and try to save Padme and their child(ren)...When he comes to the realization that there is nothing he can do for Anakin, he turns and runs and never stops to look back. But Anakin is always looking back. He runs back to his mother's arms when Qui-Gon is taking him from Tatooine, he looks back on Padme even ater years apart from her...He is always clinging to an ever receding past and that's part of his tragic downfall.

It seems like a contradiction, but I think his love for Padme is very pure and innocent and yet, at the same time, borders on obsession. He loves her so deeply, would do anything in the world for her, but in return, he wants her to be solely his. This doesn't become dangerous until he reaches that delusional breaking point of she and Obi-Wan being traitors, and then it's fatal. Abstraction means nothing to him. He sees the here and now, even though what he's seeing is wrong, and he doesn't consider the consequences. It's once the consequences happen that he glues himself to the past. And because of both flaws in his personality, Anakin can never move very far forward. Talk about your future being clouded.

I think Padme, on the other hand, very clearly considers the future. She deliberates and weighs things, at the same time loving him unconditionally and with the pureness of her entire heart. So, you're right about she and Luke. He's very much a reflection of the unpolluted goodness of his mother. Leia has that same feisty, rebellious streak that Anakin has, and she probably could have been turned with a strong dose of coercion, but Luke is a shining beacon of goodness. Arguably, he could have been turned, but the effort would have been tenfold compared to what it took to turn Anakin. (And Anakin doesn't exactly turn overnight.) Because Luke is such a force of light (yes, that's intended! hee!), he can sense that goodness in his father, and he can forgive him. Perhaps that's what Anakin needed even more than companionship or love at that point. He could never forgive himself for his wrongdoings and his actions, but Luke does, and Luke saves him.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the AotC novelization. What happened?

He could never forgive himself for his wrongdoings and his actions, but Luke does, and Luke saves him.

Yes. And I think he sees that if Luke can forgive him, then he is not beyond forgiveness and redemption. That is such a crucial thing. Anakin craves forgiveness. He even settles for the Shadow's "forgiveness." I think more than anything he wants forgiveness from Padme but of course he can never have it as she is dead. And even when he finds out about Luke & Leia (i.e. his wife did not die still pregnant), he of course still never finds out about her last words, about the fact that she still loved him, and thought there was good in him. I wonder if that would make it better for him or worse? I think both. And Luke's forgiveness is almost as if Padme herself forgave him.

I wonder what would have happened if Padme did not die (now, there is an interesting premise for an AU. I foresee a LOT of grovelling from Anakin).

Abstraction means nothing to him. He sees the here and now, even though what he's seeing is wrong, and he doesn't consider the consequences. It's once the consequences happen that he glues himself to the past. And because of both flaws in his personality, Anakin can never move very far forward. Talk about your future being clouded.

So brilliantly put. He rushes headlong and only analyzes when it's too late (Tuskens in AotC, Padme and Obi-Wan in RotS).

I think A/P is a favorite ship of mine precisely because it's so messy and tragic and true.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

The novelization just goes into further detail about how she was beaten and tortured, and her thoughts are often hazy and focusing on the hope that she will see her Ani again. His nightmares in the book are absolutely terrifying, as well. And when he finds her, she's in much worse physical condition than we see in the movie, and it's absolutely heartbreaking.

I think if he knew that Padme still loved him and still said there was good in him, it would have made him consider his choices regarding the Dark Side differently, but probably have increased his feelings of guilt. So, you're right. Both better and worse. The Shadow's "forgiveness" is of course as much of an illusion as everything else the Shadow gives him, but it is all he has to cling onto. And cling he does, to the point where I don't think he even knows what to DO when Luke comes into the scene. Not until those final moments, when everything comes rushing back to him, and he accepts the light and redemption that emanate from his son.

If she hadn't died? That's an interesting concept. Honestly, I think Palpatine wouldn't have allowed her to live, or the children, but I don't know.

A/P is definitely a favorite of mine because it's tragic and heartwrenching, but has this element of sweetness and (like you said) truth to it. I know their dialogue is often cheesy...but, if it had been really good dialogue, I'm not sure it would be any less chessy, because I couldn't buy Anakin eloquently expressing his love for her. It's raw and clumsy and real, and that's how it comes out.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

Yes. people make fun of his confession of love, which just makes me shake my head and go "come on" He is not even 20, unused to love and blurting out the first confession of a truly passionate nature. Do you think it's going tp be Shakespeare? I know some of the things my husband and I said to each other (and we were both more used to relationships and older) would sound absoultely horrible if put on the page and on screen. The stilted dialogue felt real.

I don't think he ever considered turning before the final meeting with Luke. I don't think he believes he can, that he is worthy of redemption and love. And I do wonder when he realized about how little use Palps had for him. I wonder if it was when Palps so calmly offered Luke to kill his father (and Anakin must have flashed to Dooku).

I must read AotC novelization now.

[elvensapphire.livejournal.com]

I think the stilted dialogue felt completely real, because yes, it was silly and awkward, but he's in love and he doesn't know what to do. It shouldn't be elegant and lovely, it's raw and it's true. Besides, if I was sitting with a guy that I knew I was falling in love with and he said something to me like that, I know in the moment, I wouldn't be critical of it. I don't know, maybe I'm just a sap, but the romance of AOTC has really grown on me every time I've watched it. And you should definitely get a copy of the novel!

I don't think he believes he can, that he is worthy of redemption and love I would agree. He completely loses faith in himself. Well, he completely loses himself . I think he hates Palpatine from the moment he truly "becomes" Darth Vader and Palpy calmly informs him that he (Anakin) killed Padme. He wants to crush him then and there, but he can't. As far as realizing what little use Palpatine really has for him, I'm not sure. But if he doesn't realize it before that moment in ROTJ with Luke, it's certainly sealed then. And that also seals his hatred for the Shadow that has haunted him all those years.