dangermousie: (Faith OTP by vierran45)
[personal profile] dangermousie
And have just gotten to the point were Choi Young tells Gongmin: "She has always been first to me."

OMFG I think I have just died and this is typed by my ghost.

OMFG OMFG no words! It's an incredible comment from anyone under any circumstances but from "lives and breathes duty" Choi Young, especially after he blames himself for his men's deaths as a result of him putting his love first (and yet he doesn't deny this love or try to fight it) this is so so so incredible I have no words.

Yes, I do plan to do a proper post on episodes 17-18 but I literally have 3600 caps and almost as many thoughts and I need to sort through that to reduce it to a manageable number.

Date: 2012-10-11 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
It's amazing isn't it? He goes totally the other end of the scale now, where before he was all frozen and cold, now he is totally out of the closet with his love for ES. He is so desperate, because he knows their time together is running out and he seems to fill himself up with memories of her for the time when she is gone and he will return to his duty or die.
He has become such an incredible human being. First he was the warrior who killed mercilessly and like a machine, out of duty. Now he fights for love, and the life of ES ... I find it fascinating that ever since he went after Ki Chul on that suicide mission where ES held that knife against her throat, that his fighting style has changed. Before he was all slash, slash, hack with the sword but now he doesn't even draw his sword out of the scabbard anymore to fight. It is much more personal and hand to hand.

Date: 2012-10-11 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
That's a great point about the change in his fighting style - I didn't notice it until you pointed out. It's true, he uses less lethal force now.

CY strikes me as a person of extreme feeling under that emotional armor and all that shell shock from his past. He negated himself for duty when he just wanted to die, but now he has found someone to live for and love, he is just as utterly dedicated to her and consumed by it (no surprise, this was the man who mourned MH for a decade and gave up on life). And yes, I think the impending deadline brings it all to a boil - they have no time for games now.

It makes me super worried about him if ES goes back. He won't go suicidal because he knows that would hurt her, and he might even fight for a better Goryo so her present, 700 years in the future for him, will be the same she has always known, but he won't be happy or content or anything other than just waiting to die. Look what happened with Mae Hee and his commander and what he feels for ES is 1000 times that.
Edited Date: 2012-10-11 03:30 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-11 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
My take is that after ES is gone, CY will dedicate his life to the greater good of Goryeo and how ES has described it. In order keep connected to her over the span of 700 years he makes sure that the time line for ES stays intact. Which is really sad, because those two incredible characters need a happy ending. They have grown so much, and the ES of now will not fit into the life of ES from Gangnam. Two souls centuries apart and not living their lives to the fullest, it is just too sad thinking about it.

Date: 2012-10-11 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
The ending you describe sounds very probable and I can see the narrative purpose of it, but I know it will break my heart.

Date: 2012-10-11 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Yours and mine both. I mean why narrate such a wonderful story if there is not one ray of hope.

Date: 2012-10-11 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Because that would be very kdramish, alas.

Date: 2012-10-11 06:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Not only that ... it is s sageuk as well. *sigh*
But they have already made so many modern concessions (never saw that kind of kiss in a sageuk, or that open affection between the OTP) that we might be surprised. One can wish ...

Date: 2012-10-12 02:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
True. The only time I've seen kissing like this in a sageuk was The Princess' Man...and that ended well.

Date: 2012-10-12 07:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Well that and QIHM ... though that was not a sageuk per se and we didn't see any kissing in the Joseon setting.

I have noticed that almost all recent Kdramas have a lot more active kissing now. When I remember that static kissing of Delightful Girl Choon Hyang (and other dramas of that time) from 2005 and compare it to the very passionate kissing now (QIHM, Personal Taste, Protect The Boss etc.) there is clearly a tendency for showing/pretending French Kissing (mostly the male actor doing it LOL). So perhaps FAITH will change that for the sageuks LOL
But yeah perhaps they think they can push the envelope because it is not a sageuk in the purest form having a 21st cent. woman as the main female lead.

Date: 2012-10-13 01:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I just watched the first ep of The Great Seer, a sageuk with no time travel, and on one of the main channels, and there was a sex scene (!!!!). Kdramas are loosening up...

Date: 2012-10-13 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Holy COW! They sure do loose up ... in bounds and leaps and not baby steps. But I think if they show 'all' it will loose some of its charm. :(

Date: 2012-10-13 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
They didn't do it with any of the main cast but even still...

It's pretty unusual though so I think our kdramas are safe for a while :)

Date: 2012-10-13 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
I hope so .. and yes, I watched the first ep of TGS and that scene was so arbitrary .. as if the producers just said ... we do it because we can but it has absolutely no value to the story line. We KNOW this version of Goryeo is depraved, there was no need for that scene IMHO.

Date: 2012-10-13 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Well, at that point they had a break between scenes of brutal torture and killing and other fun stuff and we can't have that.

I really did not care for the first ep of TGS. How about you?

Date: 2012-10-13 02:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
I thought it was gross. Not so much the torture and killing and everything, but the whole production looks so haphazardly thrown together. Most of the costumes (esp. of the nobility) look as if they had been used before in Chinese opera productions and look as if they are synthetics. It looks cheap. And the camera ... I really had the feeling I watched a drama from the 80s sometimes, you know what I mean ... it was all so static and not done with a lot of love and affection for the whole package.
As for the torture scenes etc. They were too long IMHO, I think the director just loves horror stories. The premise of the drama is good, it would make an awesome sageuk but judging from the first ep it will go down the drain. I don't see any communities forming for that drama anytime soon.

Date: 2012-10-13 03:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
It did look cheap and static. I mean, Faith doesn't have the budget of e.g. Legend but it looks nice enough. Most sageuks do. But this one does look like an 80s throwback and the costumes hurt my eyes - and they have to be pretty bad for me to notice.

The whole thing is blah, except for Ji Jin Hee rocking the barbarian look, but that's not enough to get me to commit.

If you want a romantic period drama fix, how about The Princess' Man? It's the only other period drama I can think of that is as romantic as Faith:

Here is a good unspoilery MV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpl8eNxVgdY&feature=share&list=UUHvWnv70I75sSc1mXfA0CYQ

Or you can check my tag :)

That and City Hunter tied for my N1 drama of 2011.

Date: 2012-10-13 03:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
I think I will .. through your tags I have found QIHM as well which is so strange and wonderful and all kinds of fabulous in a quiet way.
Heh, Yeah City Hunter ... till Faith I really had avoided watching LMH because I hated his Jun Pyo in Boys Over Flowers (which was pretty bad with the writers obsession about Rui to begin with). With Faith I thought, okay watch the first ep and if I still can't stand him, I'll drop it .. but man his Choi Young is my dream warrior, the looks, the height, the honour and duty ... it so reminded me of the fan fiction I used to write about Xie Chin (the little blue dragon) of Water Margin (the Japanese version). And CH has its flaws but overall for a revenge drama it is good. And I have become a wee bit obsessed with LMH, so I watched Personal Taste the last couple of days which was okay.

I will definitely check out TPM !!!

Date: 2012-10-13 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
The pity of Jun Pyo in BOF is that it's clear that LMH has the chops and the screen presence to portray Domyouji the way he should be done but that screenwriter and director were both utterly insane. I did love him despite that drama and Jun Pyo's character (I remember thinking it would be awesome if he did a sageuk :P)

Yeah, CY is pretty much my fantasy come true. I loved City Hunter and all the angst and romance. Personal Taste was not great but his kissing scenes were mmmm.

Now that I think of it, LMH would have made a perfect Ling in Mars, but of course kdramas would not touch those topics with a ten-foot pole.

Date: 2012-10-11 06:38 pm (UTC)
ext_21773: (OTP! (City Hunter))
From: [identity profile] village.livejournal.com
This seems so likely that now I'm feeling depressed. I really don't want them to be apart.

Date: 2012-10-11 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Me neither ... but at least in this scenario no one dies. I would really hate it if one of them or both die without any chance at a life with each other together.
Even the 'reincarnated CY' scenario would somehow suit me, though if I were ES I would prefer 14th century CY over any reincarnated 21st cent. CY.

Date: 2012-10-11 07:04 pm (UTC)
ext_21773: (Default)
From: [identity profile] village.livejournal.com
I don't know if it's just my level of delusion about this show, or maybe I just can't bear to think of how it's going to end, but I don't actually expect any of them to die. So for me, them being apart is the next worst thing.

I know what you mean about a reincarnated CY but I certainly wouldn't mind that type of ending if it means that I get the idea of them being together in the present.

Date: 2012-10-11 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
I think I might throw a tantrum and live in denial if that show does not have a happy ending :P

Yeah, reincarnated CY would be a solution for a happy ending but somehow I can't seem to envision ES living in her own timeline again. She has changed so much from that money-grabbing, stylish, selfish ES that didn't care about her patients and only saw dollar bills in them, that she would have a hard time fitting in again. She probably would put flowers down Choi's grave and visit the temple in his name and ... aww, my heart weeps just imagining this scene.

I think ES would have made up her mind for good if DH hadn't poisoned her yet again. Without her need for antibiotics, she would have told CY, I'll stay, I can't part from you. Let's go to Yuan together and make babies.

Date: 2012-10-12 02:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
She probably would put flowers down Choi's grave and visit the temple in his name and ... aww, my heart weeps just imagining this scene.

I can just see that :(

Date: 2012-10-12 06:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Yep ...
And I still wonder what the third Hwata item is ... her handoopon? What item is pretty much undescribable for a 14th cent. person?

Date: 2012-10-11 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amandioka.livejournal.com
What, how did I miss that!??? Need a rewatch ASAP.

One of the things I love about their relationship is that there wasn't a big moment of realization about their love. It just grew naturally and it shows naturally, even when they're not aware.

Date: 2012-10-11 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
It's te scene in the chapel when he is mourning his men.

And yes, I totally love that there wasn't a big moment.
Edited Date: 2012-10-11 04:50 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-12 06:12 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
When you think of epic, you always think about grandeur LOTR style. And forget how simple and quiet things can also create as much of an impact. I was complaining before how I can't feel ES and CY's "epic" love story at all. Maybe I've been programmed by the countless love stories that are totally out there when it comes to showing LE EPIC LOVE so a quiet and real story like ES and CY's love was somehow lacking. Like what amandioka said above, there wasn't a big moment of realization about their love. It just grew naturally and it shows naturally, even when they're not aware. , I realize now their love story has been planting seeds all along and naturally and quietly, without me realizing it, it has already left such a visible impact on me that I can't bear the thought of them not ending up together. It's really rare that we get to be with the couple of a drama as they slowly awaken to the feelings and love between them. It's not about clapping eyes and then it's all YOU'RE MY ONE TRUE LOVE. We are there through both their journeys and somehow see through their eyes. So it feels more real and they become more than just characters in a drama. I guess I got that epic love story after all.

Date: 2012-10-13 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
OMG, I am so in love with this comment!

Date: 2012-10-13 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Absolutely. They don't need a big declaration of love because little by little they fell in love along the way and this feeling grows day by day and it is there to stay, they don't need that AHA moment. Neither has to prove anything to the other. Like in most kdramas the hero or heroine always shows this big declaration of love (either by dying for love, giving up the person they love or just declare their love to the world) that even a blind and deaf person will have to notice it: OH, now they are in LOVE!! ES and CY don't need that, they are so sure of their feelings, protective of each other.
They are so functional as a couple, so normal and I love that about ES and CY.
Edited Date: 2012-10-13 02:43 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-11 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] algelic.livejournal.com
Forget "Faith"! I'd like to see you post more about "Nice Guy"! <--- completely biased person

Date: 2012-10-12 03:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
LOLOL I am about to.

Date: 2012-10-12 03:32 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
OMFG OMFG no words! It's an incredible comment from anyone under any circumstances but from "lives and breathes duty" Choi Young, especially after he blames himself for his men's deaths as a result of him putting his love first (and yet he doesn't deny this love or try to fight it) this is so so so incredible I have no words.
I never expected a confession like this especially after the deaths of his men. And I love that he's not manpaining coz it is his love for ES that's the cause of it. It just further confirms to him that he wants to be able to have that love. Even for just a few more days. Love how this drama blindsides me everytime. I never really thought we'd get confirmation in words that ES had always come first for him and so I'm giddy with joy. Coz CY's such a man of honor that people do believe he'll hold his king higher than anyone. Even ES thinks that way. (Though I think in GM's heart he's suspected that ES was always first. He just never expected to hear it.) But then we see that he's just a man, in the end. And the most powerful motivation for him is still his love for his woman. Swoon. So they need to be together. Hear that, drama?

Date: 2012-10-12 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
Yes, they must stay together - especially now the drama confirmed what I suspected, that ES is the most important thing in his life.

I was so worried that after the deaths of his men, he'd distance himself from ES because he'd feel love caused him to neglect his duty or due to guilt but instead it, as you put it, " It just further confirms to him that he wants to be able to have that love. Even for just a few more days." YES YES YES. I love how screwed on straight his head is.

Date: 2012-10-12 05:14 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Yes, they must stay together - especially now the drama confirmed what I suspected, that ES is the most important thing in his life.
I love that it's such a quiet confession. But it also shows how much he wants to be able to fully show his love for ES.

I was so worried that after the deaths of his men, he'd distance himself from ES because he'd feel love caused him to neglect his duty or due to guilt but instead it, as you put it, " It just further confirms to him that he wants to be able to have that love. Even for just a few more days." YES YES YES. I love how screwed on straight his head is.
Love that his love for her never once wavered. And knowing it never will... Gah.

Date: 2012-10-13 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
It kills me, though, that his steadfast nature will doom him to mourn her for the rest of his life.

Date: 2012-10-12 07:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
I was so worried that after the deaths of his men, he'd distance himself from ES because he'd feel love caused him to neglect his duty or due to guilt but instead it, as you put it, " It just further confirms to him that he wants to be able to have that love. Even for just a few more days." YES YES YES. I love how screwed on straight his head is.
I think he knows that it was crucial for him to stay at the palace to persuade the lower ranking army officers to help the king and to rat out the Generals. No one around Gongmin and Nogook had the clout (and the total disregard how dangerous this situation is) to plan a coup d'etat right under the nose of DH. His love for ES was just the cherry on top. No matter what he knows that ES is not the reason his men died, the reason is he couldn't speed the process up to clear the situation.

Date: 2012-10-13 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com
I am not so sure - he could have persuaded them faster if he wasn't in jail. (Just like with JIS rebellion - if she wasn't in danger, he would have warned faster). He is still very effective but I do think his feeling came first with significant results.

Date: 2012-10-13 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottishlass.livejournal.com
Yes tue .. but even then, the results would have been the same ... I think one of the turning points was when Officer Ahn visited him in jail (and leaving the door open). It swayed Ahn to jump ships and without him the King and Queen would have been killed.

Date: 2012-10-12 08:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] benxavier.livejournal.com
I cried when 10 of the Wo Dal Chi dye....so sad....eps when Yong flashback when he say sorry if he dye.... TT..... WO DAL CHI Forever!!!!!!!!!!

Date: 2012-10-13 01:09 am (UTC)

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